1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Stretching Comps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Naturaleight, Jan 6, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Does anyone use a betting system or have some tips they use to strech your gambling dollar as far as you can to earn comps? Some things that I do are not playing every hand in a Baccarat shoe, or play very slowly on the BJ table. I'm curious to hear what, if anything, other people do. I normally play just for the comps since I figure a trip that I'm getting comped will easily cost me $4-5K. At least this way I have a chance to make something back.
     
  2. trooth

    trooth Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    If you are just playing for comps, you are possibly better off on slots than tables. Slot players are seen as cash machines and they will comp you quickly and it is a clear cut path to points. From what I understand the pit boss is going to rate you on your play, and if they see you slow playing, they will probably short your rated play considerably. Either way though, I wouldn't chase comps for comps sake. You will spend more money than if you had just paid for the room/meal. Now if you are playing anyways, the comps make the losses much more bearable.
     
  3. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    338
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Are you sure this works for baccarat? I read conflicting things on it since in baccarat it is very common for players to sit out hands-- the casinos factor that into ratings. They also don't factor in the actual time for baccarat, instead of number of hours they base it on number of shoes. For blackjack keep in mind that places like Aria track the number of hands played through table sensors, so playing slowly wouldn't change anything. And the trend is going to be towards more electronic tracking of table players for average bets and number of hands. The type of stuff written in that book Comp City is ancient history, and honestly I think even when it was written most of it wouldn't have worked well.

    I'm interested in this topic also. Some say for table players if you tip the dealer well you can have the floorperson raise your average bet. But that can be pointless, for example if you're tipping the dealer an extra $300 over the trip for an extra $200 in comps you're coming out worse.
     
  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,105
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    If you skip EVERY hand at Baccarat - you will save more money than the comps.

    If you slow play BJ enough, you will save money. Way more than the comps you are after.


    Only valid tip I can give you is to avoid low play days. Comps for a specific trip are tied to the total play for that trip. Offers/comps/promo for future trips are tied to your average. If you have some low play days...
     
  5. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Anyone have any experience with Roulette? How do they rate comps there? Does slow play work on the roulette wheel? A host told me the ratings are the best on the wheel. This is a game I've considered playing more for comps, especially the European style in the high limit rooms with only a 1.35% house edge.
     
  6. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    I hope you don't mean this literally. There may be some people like dewey who can work the comp system to put them into +EV territory but that is a tiny fraction of the population and would probably only work at low limits...if you're getting $4k-$5k in comps it means you're probably around a $20k theo so there's no way playing "just for comps" makes sense.

    I think sitting out hands, slow play, etc aren't as effective as they may have once been. If you look at the literature on player tracking software like TablePro they take factors like number of players and speed of table into account and casino's aren't stupid enough to ignore these in their algorithms to calculate theo.

    I think a better idea would be to play at the minimum level that you can afford and still have fun playing with that delivers the maximum comps you actually use. i.e. maximize your comp utility. For instance if you're a $500/hand BJ player and get RFB but typically just eat casual meals at $100 a day but can get $200/day comped then you're not utilizing all your comps. You may be able to play at $400/hand and get the same things you actually use and you've dropped your theo loss by 20%. That's assuming you still enjoy playing at the lower level, otherwise its not worth it if you're not having fun.

    As far as the roulette goes, your host mentions it because it typically has one of the highest house advantages. But if you're playing at a European style table with the en surrender option and only making outside even money bets they'd rate you against that lower HA.
     
  7. NickyDim

    NickyDim VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,103
    Location:
    Long Island. LV starting in 2016
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    I'm a quarter player, but when I'm trying to build some comps/tier points I'll play a penny 100 play VP machine, which is $5 a pull instead of $1.25. You never get shut out on a return in any game, so it's not really like playing $5 vp, but you still get $5 worth of credits with each pull. And if you happen to be lucky to get dealt a few good hands like full houses or 4oak you're set for a very long session.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  8. Goosey

    Goosey Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    185
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Play at a high limit table with very high minimum bet. You won't be rated any lower than the minimum bet.

    I play for comps in that I would not wager a low bet just to play a hand I'm not too sure about even though I want to. But to purposely not play a hand in baccarat for the sake of comps is a stupid idea IMO. I'm not a bacc expert but I do believe in patterns and I think the game is all about making the right bets and avoiding bad ones. If you're a believer in odds being the same every hand, then just bet banker every hand.
     
  9. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,105
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19

    Did you REALLY say this?
     
  10. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I wasn't being literal. I enjoy spending my entertainment dollars gambling. I'm not playing because I actually believe I have a chance to win my trip back.

    When I say I'm getting a 4-5k trip, I don't mean that's what I am getting in comps. I mean that is what the trip would have cost me out of pocket. I probably put in somewhere between 5-7k in theo per trip.

    Yes, I know the casinos are geniuses and use sophisticated math formulas. But the table games supervisors entering the data are still human. All I want to know is if someone has any tips for being rated higher, or longer than they're actually putting in.
     
  11. Goosey

    Goosey Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    185
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I recommended playing at a table with high minimum bet.
     
  12. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    NYC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    How's that pattern winning strategy working out for you?
     
  13. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    338
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I was just reading through the old casinoboss thread in Misc. Vegas, it has a lot of good info and can answer lots of questions that get asked. He did indicate in one answer that you can't do much in terms of making your rating look higher any more these days. He said some pits where your bet is entered manually the pit boss may increase your average if you ask and you were a good tipper and so forth. But its a risky move for them because essentially rating you accurately is a major part of their job and increasing your rating can essentially amount to theft. He also indicated better casinos could be using more sophisticated tracking systems (e.g. RFID) and he posted a link for this Table Games manager from IGT that was in use:

    http://media.igt.com/marketing/PromotionalLiterature/IGT_Systems_Advantage_Table_Manager.pdf

    As you can see, this system came out at least 2 years ago since thats the copyright date listed on the bottom and the system can be used in conjunction with RFID for automatic bet tracking.
     
  14. Goosey

    Goosey Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    185
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I never said it was a winning strategy. It's just the way I like to play as I find it keeps me in the game and I find it more fun. But for what it's worth, I had a winning trip last time I was out based on one night's worth of gambling that pretty much came down to betting with two long patterns/streaks that stuck.

    Regardless, I didn't mean to offend and I wasn't trying to make any snide remarks. I just think it's a bad idea if you're missing bets because you're trying to sit at the table longer and get more comps.
     
  15. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    338
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Agreed. Reason being this is normal in baccarat. I think it was joyglen who once posted that the average baccarat player plays about 65% of hands. The casinos would obviously account for that otherwise they would practically wipe out their edge on every player after comps were deducted.
     
  16. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,421
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    One way to stretch comps and get 'over' rated, sometimes, is to vary your bets and tip well. This works especially well at craps, where average bet is more of a guess than a science anyway, but it also works at BJ.
     
  17. trooth

    trooth Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    Another way to stretch comps is limit your play to one big day. Or two bigger days. One big day on a trip with no other days looks much better than the same amount over 4 days.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.