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Table Games Splitting 8s

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by winner, Sep 2, 2014.

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  1. winner

    winner Low-Roller

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    I know this is against the basic play, but here is my reasoning for not splitting 8s against 9 and 10. splitting seems to have a high chance of having 2 losing hands assuming the dealer has a 10 for a down card, I split against 2 through 8 looking for the dealer to bust or push against my 2 hands, split or not split against an ace is a tossup as the dealer hardly ever brakes with an ace but chances are good that the dealer stands with S17. what does the community think.
     
  2. dutchvelvet

    dutchvelvet VIP Whale

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    Play your money however you like.

    The math says that splitting 8s is slightly better. On 6 deck H17, I believe correct play is to Surrender against an A.
     
  3. mikewolf13

    mikewolf13 Low-Roller

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    You realize that it is the "basic play" because mathematically it is the stronger play right? Granted, In many ways the lesser of two evils...but what do you do with the 16? Stand/Hit/Surrender? Odds are you will lose. By splitting you give yourself enough opportunities to push, double or outright win that it is mathematically advantageous to do so.
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Mike is correct. The math says split. You're assuming the dealer has a 10 in the hole. That's a strategy some players use and, I believe, following that strategy, you basically increase the house edge sixfold. Or just think about it in simpler terms: a 16 is almost always a loser. An 8 is a decent first card. If you get something small (A, 2, 3) you can hit again. If you get a 10 to make 18, that's also a good hand (and you've reduced the number of 10s that the dealer may have in the hole)
     
  5. mrem3200

    mrem3200 High-Roller

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    It would be interesting to see what the numbers were to see how much difference it makes. As the post above states you are in a bad spot no matter how you play it. I try not to deviate from basic strategy and will always split. One of my friends is the same as the OP, he will just hit it vs. 9 or 10.
     
  6. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Per the wizard of odds:
    "For example suppose you have two 8's and the dealer has a 10. The return by standing is -0.5404, by hitting is -0.5398, doubling is -1.0797, and by splitting is -0.4807. So splitting 8's you stand to lose the least, 48.07 cents per original dollar bet, and is thus the best play." (http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/1/)
    Plenty of people stand or surrender 8,8 against dealer 10 or A. It's not a massive difference, so as long as you're consistent, I imagine people at your table shouldn't make too much of a fuss. I always split them, but I won't get mad at someone who doesn't do it against a 10 or A. Just remember, in a 6-deck shoe, there are 96 (out of 312) cards that are value 10 and 24/312 that are Aces. That means you've got a 61.54% chance that the dealer's hole card is not one of those cards.
     
  7. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    You don't win more by splitting eights, you just lose less over time.

    Hitting a 16 and splitting 8's are both losing plays, but splitting 8's loses less money.
     
  8. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    That's a good perspective. I guess you could also say that sitting down at the table is a losing play, since its a negative expectation game.

    But it reminds what a friend of mine who plays more BJ than me told me once. I always thought splitting 8s and Aces was a really good hand. I think I just assumed that because you always split them. He told me that, in fact, when you split 8s and Aces, you're really just playing not to lose (and I do seem to get a lot of pushes in this scenario by winning one hand and losing the other). He said that splitting 7s is the best split hand for the player. I have no idea what the math is to back him up on that statement, but I always found it interesting
     
  9. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Most decisions in BJ are based on "losing less" than you would making an alternate play. You need luck to win, but you need less luck if you minimize your losses.
     
  10. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I don’t think it’s fair to say that splitting aces is “playing not to lose” (though, that is certainly how I look at splitting 8’s). In fact, splitting aces has a positive expected return against every possible dealer upcard. It is the only pair where that is the case.
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I brought this up here on VMB many months back. To be clear, I always split my aces & 8s...always have... but the 8s have always bugged me a bit versus the 10/Ace.
    They still bother me, and yet I still always split them. I trust the math - but it is important to understand what the math is actually saying - that you have a losing hand (most of the time). You just lose a bit less with splitting than you do with hitting or standing.

    It's like hitting a 16 vs. a 7. Odds are the dealer does NOT have a 10 in the hole, but it is still the correct play...and most BS players will do that automatically without a second thought.
    Splitting 8s should be very much the same.

    But I do understand the 'consternation' & doubts.
     
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  12. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    I get the apprehension of "Oh crap, I gotta split these against a ten". The fear and anxiety of the hand. Especially if you've pressed your bet a couple times when you get the hand. You know, you've won three in a row, now you have four chips out there and you have to split. It's crazy. And it's why we play: the adrenaline. We don't play for the money, we expect to lose a negative expectation game. We aren't at the baccarat table for the best odds, we're at blackjack so we can SPLIT. And then we get to DOUBLE DOWN. Then clench our butt cheeks while the dealer starts laying out the cards.

    Have fun, whatever you do.

    - - - Updated - - -
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I experienced that feeling this past January. My bet ha ramped up to flag chips and suddenly I stumbled into a hand that involved multiple splits and double downs. By the time I was finished, I had $30k riding on that one hand! Fortunately, I won, but it was a crazy feeling
     
  14. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    That small advantage to splitting those eights are often offset by the increased risk of ruin involved. That is always a bonafide personal decision.
     
  15. winner

    winner Low-Roller

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    i am a low roller dont go over 50 a hand, it is a grind which is fine, i dont look for the big win, if i double my money and play for 3 or 4 hours thats what i look for and i do play consistantly, i just dont like splitting 8s LOL
     
  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I would have kissed that dealer right on the mouth.

    I feel like I get 8s vs a 10 an inordinate number of times when I have a bigger bet out. I always split them, but its with reluctance like "Ugh really? I have to do this shit now?"
     
  17. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I may have peed myself and then kissed the dealer.

    I agree with UKs first post and that is how I look at it. 16s suck. So by splitting the 8s I am giving myself a shot to make a better hand(s).

    For some wicked reason I seem to always get a pair of 8s when the dealer has the face or 10 showing. WTF!
     
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