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Small free play amounts - what am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by BreakEven, Mar 11, 2016.

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  1. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    This post about bankroll + associated free play offers made my jaw drop.

    My understanding is that casinos have a lot more love for slot/VP players (which is where my gambling money goes) because of the higher theo. So with a roulette/bj player getting offers like that, I'm feeling like I'm missing out (lol...don't we all).

    Looking at that post as an example, my bankroll has varied over the years, but for my most recent trip was $4k for a 4 day stay. It's spread across a number of properties, but done "smartly" (i.e. all play associated with a specific reward program happens on the same day), and with the bulk of it concentrated at one property.

    I don't think I've had a single offer in the last 18m with more than $100FP. Been a long time since I've had $150+, and we have to go back probably 5 yrs when the economy was in the dumper & I was regularly getting $250+ with a much smaller bankroll.

    Other than not concentrating 100% of my play on one program, am I doing something wrong? Or are other folks seeing similarly small FP amounts in their offers?
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  2. Frankr163

    Frankr163 Low-Roller

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    I am in the same situation as you at CET.
    My play hasn't changed much over the last few years, but this year I am seeing no free play.
    In the past I was getting $150 in FP and another $150 in resort credit plus 5 nights at most CET properties.
    I am still getting the comped rooms, but no extras.
    Also will have to pay resort fees for the first time later this month.
    I guess I am an even lower roller than I thought!
     
  3. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    The biggest things that I would see are:

    1)Managing your ADT, making sure that you gamble with a cash management strategy in mind.
    2)Too much "butterfly" (spreading your play too thin)

    I used to be guilty of that, until I realized that if I concentrated all of my play into one to three entities (where I felt lucky), my comps would increase. Unfortunately, that meant giving up some properties. I am now focusing on:

    1)CET
    2)V/P
    3)another smaller property off strip (the D, Downtown Grand, or SLS)

    I have increased my FP at the top two to much more than the total of what I was getting at the smaller properties.
     
  4. cjohnson202

    cjohnson202 VIP Whale

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    My last few trips I've had a 4K bankroll for 4 days and have used it all at CET Casinos, mostly on slots but some on tables. My offers are all $225 FP.
     
  5. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    First, look at the average bet size, not the bankroll.

    Not sure if all those details are accurate, but his average meant that his BR could only cover a 12 bet variance. For the trip.

    Casinos don't know what your bankroll was. You could bring 1k and end up with 50k theo. But if you keep coming back with 1k, either the average bet or the theo will drop way down and so will the offers.
     
  6. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I think freeplay is based in some fashion on your ADT. They have to base it on a daily number because when they make an offer, they don't know how many nights you'll stay.

    My MLife ADT increased about two years ago and has been steady since then, the type of room and amount of resort credit I get offered got a little better but the freeplay peaked out at $200 and is down to $150 for the latest set of offers.

    CET I do the same ADT every trip and the freeplay and resort credit has been steady at $100/$50 with occasional small date ranges targeted at $200 or $225 freeplay.
     
  7. Sapphire

    Sapphire Tourist

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    Property offers must also be based on your "other activity". I used to get offers with a lot of freeplay and a small "resort credit". I never really use resort credits, maybe a pot of coffee or two from room service. But normally, I just grab quick bites to eat with cash. But the last couple of times I've gone, I actually had a few big meals with friends and charged it to my room. Now my offers are for less freeplay with much larger "resort credits" Which is odd to me. You'd think they would want to encourage me to be in the casino with freeplay rather than in their restaurants with resort credits. But my latest property specific offer has more in resort credits than in freeplay.
     
  8. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    The house edge on freeplay on slots might be 10 - 15%. The house edge on resort credit is probably 50% (ie, anything you can spend resort credit on is already marked up 100%).

    They give you $100 in freeplay, you probably walk away with $80 or more.
    They give you $100 in resort credit, it only costs them $50.

    Granted, most people are going to play the freeplay winnings right back.
     
  9. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    I don't feel that I'm spreading my play too thin. I made the same realization as you prior to my trips, and so that's why I was more targeted about my play (to not wreck my ADT).

    The vast majority of my gambling time & dollars were at my home-base (where I had a comp stay). I don't know my exact coin-in @ that casino, but do have it for other casinos. I do have a detailed log of every session, but I neglected to track time of each session. I didn't have any epic heaters at any casino. It's a very rough estimate, but I'd say probably $30k coin-in for a 4 night trip.

    What sort of "cash mgmt strategy" are you thinking of for VP/slots? Anything other than avoiding some of the higher volatility games, and focusing on denominations with better payback (as discussed in another thread here)? The "envelope" strategy where you set aside a certain amount per day?
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  10. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    So what would you suggest to keep better tabs on this? Do I need to get that data directly from the casino, or is there some way I can roughly estimate it?
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  11. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    Yeah, that's the feeling I get too. But so hard to compare with others. I mean I'm happy that I'm getting comp'd rooms. Just wondering if there was common trend of the FP dropping pretty much everywhere.
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  12. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    I wish I had that sort of problem! :) I haven't seen RC offers in a very long time (may not have ever had one @ Cosmo). I also consider other activity important, so I always have 1-2 meals every day at the casino I'm staying at (that was also a great way to remain gold @ V/P thanks to the multipliers). I make at least one spa visit every trip as well, always where I'm staying. So I'm TRYING to be loyal to my home base, but it's not clear that it matters.
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  13. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Yes, IMO, free play has dropped at CET over the past 18 months with periods where it might go up for a month or two. My bankroll is twice the size of what it was two years ago and my play is heavier. Two years ago I was regularly getting 500 fsp each month from cet. Now the average is 300. It went up to 375 for may and June. I regularly get 500 at wynncore for similar play. It is a quarterly offer rather than a monthly one but my host at Wynncore gets corporate approval to do 500 fsp for each trip. My host at cet, since retired, used to do that but that was 2+years ago.
     
  14. Jerry Snuggit

    Jerry Snuggit Tourist

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    This thread contains a lot of comments regarding CET. Keep in mind the company's long-time CEO stepped down in 2015 and was replaced by a guy with no casino industry experience (he came from Hertz car rentals). It wouldn't be a surprise if he saw this huge line item for "complimentaries and marketing expenses" and was shocked by how much stuff was given away free, and demanded a reduction in these expenses. Non-casino people don't always "get" how important comps are. Secondly, the company is in the midst of a huge bankruptcy, getting sued from many parties, this is another reason to possibly become stingier with comps compared to previous years. Who knows what is really going on inside the company but it is not surprising that lots of policies and rules and "the way things used to be" are no longer the same for CET.
     
  15. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Basically seeing the same.
    It appears CET's practice when leaving MGM is to comp well.....the first few times then continually taper off then continue to taper off more.
    Have not tested the waters to see if going back to MGM would result in the same.
     
  16. justmare

    justmare High-Roller

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    CET cuts last year were discussed in length on this board. My offers were for $700 free play or gift cards, etc... Without any change in play they went down t $400. Basically, they're still $400, but I have gotten some $500 and $625 free play offers in the last 4-6 months. The problem with the higher offers is that they restrict the days they're available so much that it's difficult, if not impossible, to use them.

    It seemed to me that MGM followed CET's lead. I'm not a regular player there, but my offers there just dropped drastically last year, too.

    I am reading a lot of you talking about your ADT saying you're doing the same ADT. How do you know you are? Are you asking for your stats from your host?

    Unless you're playing the exact coin in on the exact machines you can't just guess that you're doing the same ADT (Average Daily Theoretical). Even if you ARE playing the exact same amount on the exact same machines you don't know if they've changed the theo that's set on those machines.

    It seems that most casinos have really cut the theo set on machines in the last 5+ years. I remember back in 2008 when I was getting my theo info from my hosts at Silverton and Excalibur every trip, Silverton's was an average of 4% of my coin in (video poker play) and Excalibur was an average of 5%. Getting my theo info from the hosts where I currently play (or recently, within the last couple years) it's an average of 2-3% (Tropicana, CET, Palms). Cutting the theo on the machines is just another way for the casinos to have to give us less since everything is based on theo.

    Cut pay tables. Cut theo set on the machines. Raise prices. Charge resort fees. Etc... It's all just ways the casinos are using now to give us less for more play.
     
  17. Grid

    Grid VIP Whale

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    I'm with everyone else that says CET killed their comps. My $400 in free play went down to $200.00. I havent been back in over a year to a CET property and now they are down to $100 over the summer. So they pretty much pushed me out the door. But, when it comes to building your offers, CET will let you bounce around from property to property and lump you entire days play into your ADT. So floating around wont hurt your offers.

    MGM send out many more property specific offers. So while you will earn corporate offers if you blanket your play at different MGM properties in the same day. Your property specific offers will not be very sexy. If you played at the Monte Carlo with your full $1K you will earn better free play & room offers there VS spending $200 at 5 MGM casinos on the same day.

    Like others have pointed out, its not your bankroll but rather your coin-in. You can have $1K per day to spend and blow that on 40 spins of a $25 slot and not win anything. Your coin-in will just be $1K. OR you can get lucky on your 1st spin and win $1K, pocket your bankroll, and play out the rest. Its the ups and downs of your play that feed the coin and thats where your offers will come from. Not the total money spent out of your bankroll.
     
  18. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I think you have a big part of the answer right there. You might focus on one hotel per day, but if they have you on record for being here 4 days, then you are there 4 days, not one.
     
  19. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I think my point was more that you should not compare yourself to that person based on a similar bankroll.

    If they are averaging 400/hand and you are averaging 25/hand, the offers will be far different. But that person will also either have their average drop dramatically or far exceed their stated budget on some trips.

    The point being, tell us how long you play, what you play, and what you think your average bet is, and people on here with comparable play may be able to give you a far better idea of what you should expect.
     
  20. Peachiekeehn

    Peachiekeehn High-Roller

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