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Slots slot machine advice pennies vs quarters

Discussion in 'Slots' started by msett1, May 27, 2013.

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  1. msett1

    msett1 Newbie

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    I mostly play penny slots when I go to Vegas. My largest wins have been on penny slots. However why does it seem like I win more doing max bet on a penny machine at 2.00 a spin then when I bet on a quarter machine were the max bet is .75 a spin? I mean I know I'm betting more with each spin but I always thought the higher denominations payout more. I'm definitely a low-roller and usually spend just a couple hundred per day in the casino.

    Any tips or advice? Stick with penny machines at max bet or go to nickels or quarters? I do enjoy all the fun bonus rounds that lots of the penny machines have.
     
  2. dalej42

    dalej42 Low-Roller

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    In the end, gambling is supposed to be fun and entertaining. If you prefer the penny machines, then stick with them. I don't play a lot of slots myself anymore, but I never really enjoyed the .25 reel machines. If I do play slots, I'm playing penny machines even though they have usually have a slightly less payback percentage.

    In fact, my boredom with reel machines in the 1990s was what drove me to learn video poker.
     
  3. Smo

    Smo Mr. Las Vegas

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    The higher denomination machines do pay out more, but this higher payout is over the life of the machine. This may be 6 months, or maybe even 2-3 years, or more. It's all about 'right machine, right time', if you are looking for the big wins, no matter what the denomination may be.
    But, as mentioned, it's all about fun. Play what you like, be it pennies, quarters, dollars, or whatever; but make sure you are having a great time!

    When I play slots, it's a mix of both pennies, quarter, and sometimes dollar slots. If I'm out to turn my $200 free play into cash, it's dollar slots for me. If I wanna have fun with all those silly little bonus rounds and play 50 cents a spin so I can have my 'free' Crown 'n Cokes, then you'll find me playing pennies.

    If I need to make some money for the day, I'll be at the Black Jack tables.
     
  4. engicedave

    engicedave VIP Whale

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    I do not pretend to know any of the sciences of what makes these things hit/click, but I have found that with penny (or .02/.03/.05) that certain machines "like" certain wager amounts. Some "like" the max bet, some the middle bet, like 80/90 credits instead of 20/30 credits or 125/150 credits. You need to try different levels if the machines does not seem to be playing well, like giving bonuses, at the level you're presently playing.
    We know that the machine makers have the RNG give different payouts at differing denominations, and I believe they also vary based on total amount wagered. Remember, in the long run, it really is just a computer.
     
  5. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    The higher denomination machines will usually have a higher payback percentage... but a higher payback doesn't mean "more wins more often" and it doesn't mean that you will realize the higher payback in playing.

    Also, while they are both slot machines, you can't really compare a video slot, which will have 3x5 reels, more symbols and probably 2-5 bonus games built in, to a three reel slot machine... that would be like comparing blackjack to roulette just because they are both table games.

    As far as the higher payback percentage goes, that can work in a few different ways. As an example, lets say you are playing a "Cleopatra" slot machine at the penny level versus the same "Cleopatra" machine at the quarter level: at their core the two machines are identical in how they play, what symbols they offer and they have the same bonus game... but the penny machine has a 94% payback and the quarter machine has a 97% payback.

    To make the quarter version have a better payback there are a few different things they could do, some examples:

    1) Certain symbol combinations pay better.
    This is the most common method and usually its accomplished by changing the payout of the different 5 of a kinds.
    So as an example on the penny machine five cartouche symbols might pay 600 credits and five rods might pay 800 credits...
    On the quarter version machine five cartouch symbols might pay 750 credits and five rods might pay 1200 credits.
    That might sound like a pretty big jump up in pay (one pays 33% more and the other pays almost double!) but because those symbol combinations are pretty rare it might translate in to a 2-3% increase in payback by just changing the payouts of those two symbol combinations and then in every other way the machines are the same.

    2) More of a particular symbol.
    The other more common method is how frequently certain symbols appear on certain reels.
    So as an example, this machine might have 64 spots on each of its virtual reels and on the penny version maybe the "A" ace symbol appears 10 times on the 4th reel and 9 times on the 5th reel... but on the quarter version the "A" ace symbol appears 14 times on the 4th reel and 12 times on the 5th.
    Again, that might not sound like much but it greatly increases the odds of getting four or five of a kind of the "A" ace symbol and since it could still be pretty rare it could change the payback of the machine by just a few percent.


    But the big thing to note in these two examples above is: we changed the PAYBACK of this example machine, but we didn't change the win rate of the machine and so the two machines can have different paybacks entirely, but they both play exactly the same way.
     
  6. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Good post Auggie, but I would like to point out in #2, it will only increase the game's payout if you remove the same amount of even lower paying symbols. Aces are often a much weaker symbol in slot game versus powerful wilds or even character symbols. Also note you do change the win rate (hit frequency) of the machine in method 2, but only so slightly that no one would really notice.

    For fun (yes, a strange definition of fun), I deconstructed the PC version of the game "Twin Win". Aces pay 0/0/8/20/200 while Kings-Jacks pay 0/0/5/15/100 I found 5 Aces out of 82 symbols on reel 4, and 3 Aces out of 66 on Reel 5. The game itself returned 96.58%, and each individual line hits a winning combo 4.04% of the time. If I would just add 4 Aces and 3 Aces to reels 4 and 5 respectively without removing any other symbols, the game would then return 95.64% and only has a hit frequency of 3.99%. Now after adding the Aces, if I remove 2 kings and 2 queens from reel 4, and 1 king and 2 queens from reel 5 then the game's return goes up to 97.49% with a hit frequency of 4.06%.
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    If you are playing $2 a spin vs $.75 a spin, it will of course pay out more. Even if the payback is 5-10% less.

    And of course are those little wins that are designed to make you feel like you are winning more often.
     
  8. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, I skipped over this point in my initial response. The higher bet is one of the major reasons for the bigger wins. Bet 75c in the penny machines and see the results. The other is that penny slots are usually higher variance than reel slots.
     
  9. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    This is speculation and not true. The chances of hitting any particular combination never change regardless of the number of credits/lines played. The RNG never uses the number of credit played when selecting the symbols to be displayed.

    Multi-denominational machines may have different virtual reels when you change denominations, but that's different than playing 10 credits vs. 30 credits.
     
  10. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Regarding variance generally the opposite is true. Playing .75 a spin on a modern penny video slot, you often have a hit rate of up to 60% or higher. Of course, many of these hits pay less than .75. On a quarter reel slot, you'll probably have a hit rate of around 10%, but most (or all) of those hits are amounts larger than .75. The variance on the penny slot is a lot lower because the trickle down and the jumps up are much slower. On the quarter slot, if you're unlucky, you can go for MANY spins winning nothing, or hit some big combinations and win a ton quickly.
     
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    You're right. Brain fart. If you would play one line on a penny slot for 75c, then the variance would be higher than the 3 reel slot usually. But who in the hell does that? lol Any normal person is playing 25 lines for 3c instead, and the overall variance in terms of $$ is lower than a single line 3 reel.
     
  12. msett1

    msett1 Newbie

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    Lots of interesting and helpful information. If you are going to be better on a penny slot $.75 or 1.50 a spin, wouldn't you better off going up to a quarter slot? Yes the penny slot might hit more but the quarter slot would have bigger hits when it does hit.
     
  13. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    From my experience, I would say that penny slots are LOWER variance than reel slots. With penny slots, I seem to get a lot of small wins that are equal to or even less than my bet per spin.

    With reel machines on the other hand, the smallest win is typically mixed bar symbols, which is equal to 5 credits.

    Penny slots have a lot of small wins to keep you afloat, whereas a reel slot session will be very short if you don't hit a good spin or two early on....based on this, I would say that reel slots have a higher variance.

    EDIT: Sorry, I just hit reply when I read your post, didn't scroll down to see that you and wade had already replied with basically the same thing....oops!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  14. engicedave

    engicedave VIP Whale

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    You are right, I am wrong.
    I talked to my friend this morning who works for IGT and is a slot manager of a casino here in Florida (he works on a consultant basis for several casinos) and he told me the only variance in the RNG (payout) is denomination, NOT credits wagered. So whether it's pennies, quarters or five dollars, the payout percentage does not change based on credits wagered. Obviously, the number of lines will change payout percentages, but if you play max lines at a single credit per line, the payout percentage is the same as if you wagered max credits on the same number of lines.
    Any variance I believe I see is solely in my mind.

    I stand humbly corrected
     
  15. gongoman

    gongoman MIA

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    Bottom line most people like the Arcade effect...I don't...If ya wanna have a better chance winning play a 3 reel slot.......................

    Bottom-line:beer:
     
  16. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    You could even make the case that the return percentage doesn't change even if you play one credit on 1 line vs. one credit on 20 lines. Your HIT RATE will improve, of course, (winning something on a spin), but I think the return percentage betting one credit one one line works out to the same percentage as betting a total of 20 credits and having 20 lines that can hit. It's a little like multi-line VP. (This omits the details on how bonuses are triggered.)
     
  17. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Not sure you car comparing apples to apples.
    Is it the .75 reel machine and the penny video machine?

    If so, you have many more chances to win on the penny video machine.
     
  18. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    But many of these 'extra' wins on the penny machine are for LESS than the .75 you risked. With 3-reel quarter machines, usually the smallest win will be 4 or 6 quarters, (3 per spin).

    Higher (often MUCH higher) hit rate on the pennies, but usually a substantially better return on the quarters. (ballpark 11% hold on the pennies, 7% hold on the quarters.)
     
  19. FoolsGold

    FoolsGold Tourist

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    I have no idea why you would want to do such a thing. Do you generally go to a restaurant and order the items with the smallest portions? Or go to a bakery and order the day-old items?

    >My largest wins have been on penny slots.
    Sorry, I can only speak to the averages, to what is expected.

    >I'm a low-roller usually spend just a couple hundred per day in the casino.
    That is the type of player casinos love!

    >Any tips or advice?
    LOTS of tips and advice. Do you want any GOOD advice; you may have read the other posts for that.

    First READ THE MACHINES. Most, but not all, machines give you more for each coin you add. If so, its better to go full coin and qualify for max prizes on the machine.

    Second, do what you ENJOY, its the reason you go there. Don't order chopped liver just because some food critic likes it.

    For Clark County: Casinos took 10.93 percent out of Penny Machines but took only 6.43 percent out of Quarter Machines and only 5.67 percent out of Dollar machines. So clearly on average its better to play the machines that take less of your money. However, these are county wide AVERAGES.

    For specific casinos, the overall worst is the Airport Slot Concession. Next worse is undoubtedly The Venetian. In general, you are better off at the various Local Casinos on the Boulder Strip than the casinos Downtown and better off Downtown than at The Strip. However, the total experience of Vegas includes your room, the casino ambiance, the food, the alternative entertainment, travel time, taxi fares, etc.

    If you really like Penny Slots I'd check out Emerald Island in Henderson which offers ONLY Penny Slots and great food. Nice place for slots, but don't expect any rooms or shows or bowling. Small casinos in the area offer a bit more such as a table game or two but still concentrate on slot machines. If you want more options I'd go to Boulder Strip area and try Sams Town.

    Remember,,, its YOUR buck, so YOU choose how much "bang" you want for it.
     
  20. wrxrob

    wrxrob High-Roller

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    small piece of advice, if you're a video slot player. When you make the big score on a penny machine (i.e. $200-300), instead of bleeding that back into the pennies, take a risk, and look for video slots in the high limit room. Many times I've taken $100 out of winnings, dropped it into a 25c video machine (often 10-25 lines) and turned that into $200-500 in short order. Just realize you can lose quickly as your bet is effectively $5-10/spin at that point. But its a good feeling to land a bonus round on a higher limit video slot.

    ...just an idea, only if you're comfortable :peace:
     
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