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Table Games Should I play 6:5 blackjack?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by ultima-forsan, Oct 22, 2015.

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  1. ultima-forsan

    ultima-forsan Tourist

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    I am in Vegas right now. All the tables I see are paying 6:5 at low limits. I could go downtown and play 3:2 but with the taxi cab fees to go there I don't know if it's really valuable to go there play 5$ blackjack at 3:2. What do you think? Is it really that bad to play 5$-10$ 6 to 5 blackjack?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Dude, its your call. Despite what others say, you aren't "betraying the fraternity" by playing it. You're just sacrificing expectation for location.

    BUT. your expected loss would be lower at a 3:2 $10 though assuming you flat bet and play basic strategy (although higher variance and risk of ruin)

    Where are you? There are a number of other options. You could take a shuttle to GC / Orleans for free and play there. You could take the SDX downtown. And others may be able to point you to the $5 strip 3:2 you are finding so elusive.
     
  3. ultima-forsan

    ultima-forsan Tourist

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    I am staying at the flamingo, I think I'm going to fremont tonight. I just want to play a little bit during the day in a casino close from here. Thanks for the heads up buddy!
     
  4. rvallez6

    rvallez6 Low-Roller

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    If it's convenient for you to play 6:5, just play. It all depends on what is a good time for you. I know most people detest people for even thinking about playing 6:5, but it's your trip, your money... just have fun.
     
  5. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Maybe someone can confirm, but I believe Ellis Island (short walk away) has 3:2 as well. Not to mention cheap good eats.

    If downtown is too much of a trek ...

    Also no idea if they will be $5 or $10, but be aware that Flamingo and other CET hotels like to hide one 3:2 table in an otherwise 6:5 pit.
     
  6. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    Maybe you should look harder.
     
  7. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Short answer to your question - no, you should never play 6:5 blackjack whenever 3:2 is conveniently available to you - and it is. You can easily - and quickly - take a free shuttle to either Gold Coast (or Rio & walk 5 minutes to Gold Coast).
    You can pay a few dollars & get a monorail day-pass & take it down to LVH (Westgate), or to the Trop (MGM stop). You have a lot of easy, cheap and reasonably convenient options to get to low-limit 3:2 blackjack.

    Now, with that said, I certainly understand if you don't want to hassle with it - but then - why ask the question if that were the case?
    My personal recommendation would be Gold Coast; double-deck pitch, 3:2, H17, DAS...$5 min. That's as good as you'll find in Las Vegas at $5 a hand.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  8. BTSyndrome

    BTSyndrome Low-Roller

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    I believe in this also!

    I have been found playing the crap 6:5 $5 table at NYNY at the end of my night...But, I was staying there.
    I was stupid-fun-drunk and was worried if I left the hotel I would get lost and never make it back to the room. :confused2:

    Best part, buy-in for $68 and cashed out $342
     
  9. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    If you are not adverse to the dream angels bj [and who wouldn't be ] but there are 3/2 on those machines I know Monte Carlo has em
    . Others Cosmo does for 15. I do know flamingos were 6/5 though

    Just check the pay tables
     
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  10. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    There are principles involved. NEVER play 6:5.
     
  11. hail2skins

    hail2skins Low-Roller

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    How tough is it to find a $5 craps table on the Strip? I know probably difficult at the nicer places but what about Casino Royale, etc? I think the OP should play that, or learn to play it if they don't know already.

    I say this because I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to stick to craps. I normally stay downtown and $5/10 blackjack at 3/2 is still fairly easily available, but I can see it being only a matter of time before Fremont Street goes mainly 6/5, or like the D and GG where you have a bunch of CSM. No thanks...........I'll stick to dice, and don't feel like having to take a shuttle or bus to get to a casino when there are many either at or within walking distance of where I'm staying.
     
  12. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    I honestly agree with this. Especially because so few people know that there's a difference, let alone understand it (I've had to explain this to probably ten different friends over the last year), it's incumbent upon those of us who know what's going on to try to resist it.
     
  13. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Here's the way I look at it:

    1. On average a player can expect a blackjack about one in every twenty hands. There are variables here such as decks in play, dealers also having a BJ resulting in a push, but over the long term let's call it one BJ in evert 20 hands.

    2. At a table with three players we can expect about 80 hands per hour dealt. Again there are variables: speed of dealer, players slow to make wagers/decisions etc. So on average the BJ player at a moderately filled BJ table can expect about four BJs per hour, on average over time.

    3. Playing $10 3:2 BJ will net a win of $15. Playing $10 6:5 BJ will net a win of $12. So each hour, over time, the 6:5 player is giving up about $12 per hour. That's just a little over one baseline $10 bet right? But let's say you play 20 hours over a weekend trip. That comes to over $200. That's an okay session bankroll at the $10 level.

    These numbers are certainly open to some interpretation, but overall they're pretty solid. At a higher betting level the 6:5 BJ player is leaving even more winnings on the table.

    There are plenty of decent 3:2 $5 & $10 BJ games in Vegas. I guess the big issue for most lower level BJ players is this: Is it worth the time, effort and transportation cost to find and play these better games at a lower minimum. The answers will cover a wide spectrum.

    Personally I would never even consider playing 6:5. As bardolator stated above: it is a matter of principle. I also would never play for higher stakes, i.e. higher minimums, just to play 3:2 in a plum location.

    OP, hope this helps you out. Have fun in your blackjack pursuits. :peace: :beer:
     
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  14. NJS24

    NJS24 Low-Roller

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    Everyone on this board are professional gamblers who log in 8+ hour sessions and will tell you how forbidden it is to play 6:5, and the increased house edge Blah Blah Blah...

    Yeah, if I made the choice to play BJ for a living, I'd probably avoid the 6:5. But if you're on vacation and it's convenient to play at home base for a bit, go for it. You can hit a hot deck, and once you reach your end game, run for the hills.
     
  15. gradytripp

    gradytripp Low-Roller

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    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Go to Ellis Island. $5 3:2 BJ, with surrender, all day. The rules are just a smidge below what's available at Gold Coast (mentioned by topcard) because it's a 6- or 8-deck shoe instead of double deck. And I also like Gold Coast, but a trip to EI is a must-do, each and every trip.
     
  16. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Why do the math like that when you can just use house edge on the same assumption?

    80*10 = $800 wagered.

    House edge on 6:5 (H17), 2.02% = $16.16 expected loss with 6:5
    House edge on 3:2(H17), 0.66% = $5.28 expected loss with 3:2

    Thus costing you 10.88 an hour. And since the OP wants a $5 game, it would cost him 5.44 an hour more or less. And as I mentioned, his expected loss would be lower on $10 3:2 than $5 6:5.

    6:5 is effectively just a higher price on the game.

    So this is akin to saying 'There are principles involved, NEVER pay $6 for a beer'.

    I understand the anger and I understand the desire to see those games fail so good rules come back, but there really isn't a principle. There's just what you are willing to play and what you aren't and that is a personal decision. I think people should know the math so they know what they are giving up, but if they know it and would rather play than look for better rules it is their choice.
     
  17. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Should you play 6/5 - NO. I always luv the rationalization of people and dealers..."how many bj's do you really get?", "it's only a few dollars"," at 5 or $10 a hand it doesn't change the odds much", or the best one - "when I get a BJ i'm happy no matter what they pay me".

    Next time someone tells you it's only a few dollars, look them in the eye and say "ok, give me a few dollars... cmon, it's only a couple bucks"
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I'm not saying that I would take a cab to downtown from the strip just so I could play $5 3:2 blackjack. I wouldn't.
    I would, instead, either stay downtown (which is what I do 90% of the time these days), or I would go to the Gold Coast.

    Now, I am by no means an "advantage player", but I do try to keep a reasonably accurate 'count' when I play.
    I don't have the discipline or patience to try and count a 6 or 8 deck shoe...so, I stick with 2-deck most of the time.

    With my 'casual' count, I am able to fairly-regularly win at blackjack...but it's never very much. My average bet is about $18 a hand.
    As Nevyn & Mike point out, giving up $10 to $12 an hour for the 'convenience' of playing $10 6:5 is not something I will ever do, unless the 3:2 option disappears entirely.

    When I go to Vegas, gambling is the primary activity - I typically gamble for 12 to 14 hours a day, with 75% of that being blackjack.
    So, about 10 hours a day playing blackjack. At 6:5, with an average bet of $18, I would be giving up about $22 an hour (assuming 4 blackjacks per hour, and flat betting). That's $220 a day, and for a 3-day trip - $660.
    Trust me when I tell you that 90% of the time, $600 is the difference between a winning trip and a losing trip for me.

    Most of my winning trips are for less than $600...probably averaging about $400 per win, with a 75% or so 'winning trip' percentage over the course of 80+ trips.
    So, for a low-roller playing mostly-blackjack, 6:5 is out of the question. This is far-and-away the #1 reason I usually stay & play downtown these days.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  19. DallasDublt

    DallasDublt Low-Roller

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    I think people are correct when they tell you it's your money and your vacation, do what you want. But every time someone sets down at a 6:5 table it just makes it that much harder for everyone else to find one next trip. Then in 5 years we have the same thread only it says... should I play at a "even money" table.
     
  20. gmille58

    gmille58 Low-Roller

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    Last trip to Vegas I played about 4 hands of 6:5. Lost three and pushed one. Only reason was the 3:2 tables at MB were all $50+ minimum, and my wife wanted to play a little. "Luckily" the dealer was hot and we both didn't win a hand so we just went and played slots for a bit and called it a night. I had to shake my head when we were headed back to the room, as I walked by a guy playing at a 6:5 table for purple and yellow chips, when the table next to him was $100 min and paid 3:2. You would think that someone playing that high would be a little more informed.
     
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