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say bye to Revel A.C.

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Hotels & Casinos' started by Gomar, Aug 11, 2012.

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  1. Gomar

    Gomar Low-Roller

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    http://articles.philly.com/2012-08-10/business/33138252_1_table-games-casino-revenue-pennsylvania-casinos


    "seaside resort as a non-gaming destination with its celebrity chef restaurants, retail galleria, giant spa and 10 pools"

    really? It's built on the boardwalk, infront of the ocean, but they need 10 pools. huh?
    Why would anyone travel 2-4 hours, just to eat or go shopping or swim in a pool? With the new casino in Queens, I am not surprised Revel is not doing well. If Revel goes, so goes A.C.; not even Borgata, Taj, Caesars, Harrah's will save it.
     
  2. saintpauljeff

    saintpauljeff VIP Whale

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    wow, didn't that place just open?? guess the service workers won't have to worry about re-interviewing for their jobs in 5 years...won't be a job to have
     
  3. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    You don't actually believe that, I would hope.

    Many of the large casino conglomerates have failed. The big ones restructure their debt and continue operations. Yes, we shoulder the cost for that as well.

    Nick:beer:
     
  4. saintpauljeff

    saintpauljeff VIP Whale

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    I have no idea about their solvency or long term financial propects. They did impose term limits for front line employees, however, at least the articles that came out early in the year said so.
     
  5. TommyToledo

    TommyToledo Low-Roller

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    I'm not surprised it had disappointing casino revenue. Friends who visited didn't like it and it's business model was a resort that happens to have gambling. Also, and this is what I heard so maybe it's inaccurate, but they didn't have any tiers in their players club. The seven star players I know from AC said outright they weren't going there.
     
  6. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

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    That's unfortunate. They're the reason why I've been back to AC this summer.

    I've stayed comp Friday and Saturday and receive 100 a day food credit and they've up'ed my freeplay to 250 for my next stay, which is end of August.

    Pretty much every dealer I've spoken to are so happy with their job despite it being set up like it is and the number one reason is always, because it is smoke free environment.

    It's such a beautiful property. The best I can describe it is if The Aria and The Cosmo had a child and named it The Revel.
     
  7. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    people want fun and cheap drinks, not over the top fancy.

    Sure these places are neat to see but no way am i going to stay there when i can get $1 beers right next door or at least nearby.

    This is what big businesses do. lets look at the superbowl or the olympics as an example.

    used to be the superbowl was a football game. now it has to be bigger and better every year. Do we really want that or are we being told we want that/ would we be happy with just a championship football game?

    Look at your favorite tv show. Do you want to watch next weeks episode because it will bigger and more lavish then this weeks or do you just want to watch another episode?

    The tendency to over blow things is what i call "superbowlization"

    dont even get me started on adding muppets into sequels of movies because i hate that too.
     
  8. oghuman

    oghuman High-Roller

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    When I went in May before their official opening I asked if they match tiers from other players clubs. They said no we only have one tier. In addition to that I heard there were no comped rooms, plus there's no smoking. I'm not a smoker so this doesn't bother me. No Smoking, no comp rooms and one tier, my immediate thought was this place will be in trouble quickly or they will have to change. A couple months later I got the email stating they were now matching tiers from other clubs. Comped rooms are here according to AbFab above. That says it all. Next smoking. It really is a beautiful property but I'm not sure this was necessarily great for AC. They're just taking business away from other casinos already there. An additional problem is there is no family of casinos where you can use your comps that I'm aware of.
     
  9. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    The problem is they chose to go after the non-gambling crowd, to the point of actually being somewhat hostile to the established AC "high roller" crowd [myself included] - I've been to AC a few times now since it opened, and haven't even bothered to set foot in it because of all the bad word of mouth I've heard from other players re: Revel's apparent lack of interest in and poor treatment of HL players.

    A high-end place needs the high-end gamblers to survive - they thought they could survive on paying guests & casual gamblers alone; seems they're learning the hard way this was the wrong way to go.
     
  10. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    What is with this new strategy of casinos being ashamed of being casinos?:confused2:
     
  11. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

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    Well, you're missing out on a gorgeous view of the ocean and sunset while playing in the HL room. Such serenity.

    The bad news it opens noon and closes around 8am.

    And while we're at it, I find it weird that their non-mid shoe pit doesn't open open until either noon or late afternoon. Borgata's is always open.

    But, I'm not complaining regarding their comps. Like I said I get Friday and Saturday comped with a $100 food credit per day and freeplay (changes).

    In addition, I consistently get invites to tournaments or free concert tickets via email.
    I play $50 a hand BJ and $2x5 VP.

    I've never received this much from Borgata.

    SO, if you're a true player, they're trying IMO.
     
  12. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    First of all, it's a nice joint. The trendy thing to say when a new place opens is how you didn't like it for whatever lame-o reason. Pay attention particularly to casino and large project openings...... everyone bitches.

    Secondly, they do have tiers. I'm Chairman with Trump and they matched me with tier 3 and freeplay and room comps. Your friends that are 7 star would get a tier 4 match a.d $500 front money, so they aren't too swift to not take that and low play them if they don't like the joint.

    Nick:beer:
     
  13. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    Are you well? People don't want over the top fancy???

    Vegas has reinvented itself year after year based on ultra luxe swanky resort destinations. Steve Wynn has a brilliant mind, yet you comment that people don't want what he offers?

    Gamblers need variety and casinos need variety. The swanky 4 and 5 star rooms in vegas greatly outnumber lower end properties. There is a reason for that.

    Nick:beer:
     
  14. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    ^+1 I totally agree.

    AC in particular really needs to go upscale to survive given the competition from the locals places that have popped up in Delaware, Pennsylvania & New York - they need to give people [like me] a reason to take a 2-plus hour drive to gamble when there's downscale choices galore closer to home now. Gambling isn't enough of a draw anymore, they need to offer a full resort experience or there's really no reason for most of AC's clientele to go there anymore.
     
  15. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    here is the real quandary.....you can't be "upscale" while attracting "locals" type players

    read the reviews of the locals casino in filly in particular it is actually driving people back to AC just to get away from "locals".....in the past when those locals actually had to sober up, bath, put on a clean shirt, save up more then their kids weekly lunch money, and take a trip all the way to AC there was money to be made on that crowd.....now not so much that crowd is spending their last dollar at the locals casinos

    now you have to offer such money losing deals to those players to pry them away from bad odds, bad booze, and bad food topped off with poor service that you can't make any money off of them and when their "bank roll" consist of the same they would spend at the locals casino and the only reason they are not there is because of a free bus trip, free food, free play, and a free room it is a lose lose proposition especially when they act like they are still at the locals casino and run people off to other properties
     
  16. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    Which is exactly why they need to go upscale in AC - as you point out, the locals market is now absorbing the low rent crowd. I don't play at the locals casinos precisely because the crowd is - how to put it delicately - undesirable. But my point was, anymore, the only place I [and most other "local" HL players] will go in AC is Borgata - the most upscale joint in town - because pretty much the rest of town - with the possible exception of Harrah's, Caesars and the new Golden Nugget - has let their properties go so much that there's no reason to go to them if you're playing HL [and when I talk HL, I'm talking about the $500-1000+/hand players] - if you're going to play at Bally's, Trump's places, Resorts, ACH, etc. - the properties are sad, dilapidated & don't even have any good restaurants, etc. to make playing big worth playing at them in terms of what they can provide you in terms of dining, accomodations, etc. - a lot of former big AC players - myself included to a certain degree - players who used to spread their play over two, three, or four properties in town, because they were all good - have pretty much abandoned AC - or consolidated their play at Borgata, and to a lesser extent Harrah's & Caesars, while ignoring the rest of town - and/or just started taking more frequent trips to Vegas instead.

    So while Revel got it right in terms of building a beautiful property with nice restaurants, where they've gotten it wrong is in treating the serious high-end gambler with - if not entirely disdain and contempt - at the very least, an intentional degree of lack of interest - as in projecting an attitude of "serious, high-end gamblers? We're not really interested in your business, you all can stay at Borgata..." in terms of the incentives and marketing effort they are making towards the highest-end gamblers. And as a result, Borgata continues to be grand central station for the highest-end players in the AC market - while the rest of the town starves. It's not that the high-end players aren't there - it's just that nobody is giving them what they want besides Borgata. Revel could've, but so far they've chosen not to.

    And this is borne out by the latest numbers, which show Revel taking in about 1/3 of what Harrah's & Caesars are taking in from gambling revenues, and a mere 1/5 of what Borgata is taking in - it's barely taking in more than bottom feeder ACH - and that says something very powerful about where Revel has put gambling - and particularly high-end gambling - in its priorities. A giant, upscale new property should be doing gangbusters business in its first summer, not being trounced 3-1 and 5-1 by 30 and 10 year old properties. So you have to ask yourself why - and I think it's very clear that the answer is that they've treated the serious gambler with disdain, trying to position themselves as a resort with gambling as opposed to a casino resort - and trying to make that point by providing zero incentive to the biggest players to make them feel welcome and want to play there.

    So my point was, that in order to survive, AC has to go after the "cream" of the locals crop - believe me, there are TONS of highest-end gamblers within a 2-hour drive of AC [metro NYC, Philly, Baltimore & DC] - but most of the properties in town have let themselves deteriorate so much that there's very little desirable about them to make the high-end gambler still want to visit. For example, I provide myself - over the past 20 years, I used to visit AC on average twice a month - but in one 9 month stretch that lasted from last September to May of this year - I didn't go at all - the longest stretch in a long time - choosing instead to just take more trips to Vegas instead - and even when I did finally go back, it was still to Borgata - because Revel didn't extend me anything in terms of offers or service to try and get me in the door - and because most of the rest of Atlantic City's properties have become downright depressing with their poor service, lack of good restaurants and shabby accomodations. I'd even stopped going to Trump Taj Mahal - a place where I'd had a relationship with practically since it opened - the last few years because they got rid of most of their high-end restaurants and hadn't redone the place in nearly two decades [true, they recently added a new tower, but the rest of the property is still completely mired in 1990]. It's not that I don't want to go to AC anymore - it's just that the only place in town I go anymore is Borgata - and that gets boring after a while. If there were more top-tier options in AC, I - and many others like me - would have more of a reason to visit more frequently. Instead, we're forced to go to Vegas for variety.

    So it seems to me, given that the penny slot folks & $5 players are no longer willing to hike two hours to AC when they can get their fix closer to home - what they need to do is provide glamorous properties with great restaurants again - the way AC used to in it's 80's & 90's heydey - to give the people who can afford it a reason to make the trip, be it for a night or a weekend.

    Revel got one part of it right - the upscale property & the great restaurants - but where they've gotten it wrong is by not rolling out the red carpet for the big players the way Borgata has always done and still does. As for the rest of town? Just look at how recent races to the bottom have fared for properties like Resorts & ACH - going downscale isn't cutting it. You want people to come to AC that will actually spend some money, either in the casino or on the rest of the property? You need to go upscale. But what should be getting learned by Revel's revenue figures this first summer - the same lesson learned by Palazzo/Venetian in Vegas last year when they cut comps - is that the upscale, non-gambling customer does not spend enough on restaurants & rooms alone to keep a large-scale casino resort afloat financially - the highest tier gamblers in AC - folks like myself who are willing to drop five to six figures for little more than a limo ride, nice dinner, and maybe one or two nights in a great suite - are where AC's real profit margain has always been and still is - it's why Borgata, Harrah's & Caesars are pretty much the only consistently profitable properties left in town. If you don't try to attract that crowd - or, as Revel has done, actually alienate them by sending a message via your hosting & marketing staff that big players need not apply - you are signing your own death warrant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  17. hammie

    hammie VIP Whale

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    I read this article yesterday, and this figure is stunning. A brand new property and in July which should be one of the best months for drawing customers due to the great weather. If they can't make money in the summer, what will happen in the fall and winter? There is a bond payment due in the fall and it is doubtful that there is enough cash from operations to make the payment. Revel ended up #8 in July, it beat Atlantic Club, Resorts, Golden Nugget, and Trump Plaza (Trump was the worst performing).

    For what it's worth, in 1983, the Golden Nugget AC (before it was Bally's Grand and AC Hilton, ACH, now Atlantic Club) was the top earning casino and was one of the smallest. But, it was owned by Steve Wynn back then.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  18. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    I can agree with a lot of what you are saying, but sadly it is just plain too late for most casinos or casino companies

    while there are plenty of actual high limit gamers out there at this point there are far far too many casinos trying to go after them

    the huge issue that Revel and many Vegas properties have is they have mistaken having money (or at least finding money to waste with impunity) as "high end"......there is nothing at all high end about the kardashians, paris hilton, rap stars, most pro athletes, jersey shore types, or anyone that wants to be one of those....in fact I am positive there are low rent whores and street bums that have more class than the kardashians and paris hilton at least they have more actual dignity

    casinos needed all segments of the market or at least many segments of the market to actually make it....they will never make it with just a single segment and in fact it has been proven time and again in retail, restaurants, property development, and pretty much any business in general that limiting yourself to or almost exclusively targeting a high end segment is a path to failure...there are a very few new "high end" housing developments that might have made it, but "high end" condos in former dumps that were redeveloped, "high end" malls just built any old where and called "high end" because they have targeted a bunch of over priced shops, "high end" restaurant and entertainment areas.....they fail time and again

    people in New York can go to yugo boss, tire company stared restaurants, 5 star hotels, high end shopping districts any time they want....what they could not do was gamble.....even middle class and "low end" people can do all of that in NY and in many other areas of the country

    what made Vegas different in the past was that middle class people would not be treated like the riff raff even if they were not as "sophisticated" as those in places like NY that get 5 star restaurant reservations 30 minutes before they want to eat...Vegas had a polite and proper way of either getting those people to dress up or steering them to a restaurant on the property where they could be treated like they were high end and eat like they were high end while wearing jeans and a ball cap

    today you might have a server wearing a ball cap at your "high end" restaurant :rolleyes2:

    AC will never be Miami....it will never be Long Island....it will probably never be much more than a dump with casinos.....people that actually have the means can go to Long Island, Miami, Vegas, San Diego and the like they don't need to fake it with all the wanna bees at AC

    and worse is the idea that people go somewhere to do EVERYTHING while on a single trip especially high rollers.....no one even people with means wants to gamble for 6 hours, eat a 12 course meal for 2 hours, hit the fake indoor ski slopes for 3 hours, lay by the pool for 3 hours, then hit the Dbag bar for 4 hours of power drinking, followed up by 3 hours of power shopping with 4 hours of poor sleep to finish it all off

    that reeks of paris hilton and the kardashins where every day has to be everything and non-stop look at me spending and being cool and doing and going and wow i'm so out there!

    especially when people with actual class and money can do any of those things at the real exciting places to do those things more frequently and for longer periods than just a weekend or two per year

    the Borgata has no beach, I think it only has the bobby phlay named restaurant, it is not where the hipsters and "cool crowd" goes to drink until they vomit......yet it still takes in the money.....because they have service, they have value for the dollar, and because they have their gaming under control instead of trying to be a "place to be" that has a casino...and even they have some declines in revenues because the people that they used to politely be able to let know they need to shower, sober up slightly, and change their shirt or go get something to eat can now gamble and chain smoke while wearing depends so they no longer have to move from the machine at the "locals" casino

    they have stratified the market and then flooded it to the point there is probably no way to recover...when you appeal to "high end" or high rollers you also sadly appeal to people that do not understand their money does not make them anything more than low class trash with money.....and that does not appeal to long term "high end" or high rollers and it does not appeal to people that save up some money and take a vacation that happens to have a lot of gambling and worse it does appeal to flat trash that have managed to scrape enough money up to pay to get in the club for a night or two and it is all down hill from there
     
  19. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    A lot of the "old time traditional gamblers"

    may not be around much longer. AC did great in the 80's because it was where the real gamblers went to GAMBLE. This was the WW2,Korea generation ,guys who owned their own businesses and had cash. Shows and dinners,pools and spas were to keep their wives or girlfriends happy.
    I think the casinos realize that these guys arent gonna live forever and that the boomers and the 20-40"s have to have their clubs,concerts martini bars etc. ala the Borgata,they have captured this market in AC. Obviously,Revel figures they can attract the newly minted affluent also.
    My theory of evolution anyway. We're heading to AC later today,promised to behave myself.
     
  20. 4ofakind

    4ofakind Tourist

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    Well so much for the trendy smoke free casino. Only problem for them is all the job applications promised employees a no smoking facility. They got themselves in a bind and I hope they fall on their arses. Where do they think the big Asian smoker bettors will go ? One of them just hit Borgota for $5 million last month.
     
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