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Slots RNG's - Explained?

Discussion in 'Slots' started by wisconsin willie, Dec 31, 2014.

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  1. wisconsin willie

    wisconsin willie Tourist

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    Perhaps someone might answer a question for me please? Regarding a penny slot machine. You have the option of playing 15 - 40 cents per line and 5 to 10 lines. I realize that one receives a better pay back with max bet per line but does the rng vary on the number of lines? Or stated another way does the percentage of wins increase with the number of bets per line?
     
  2. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I believe the probability of winning per line is the same. On the type of machine you describe, a typical video slot penny machine, the only time your overall odds change is when you need to play max bet in order to be eligible for a bonus round(s). The ability to get a bonus round increases your expected payback % vs not being eligible.
     
  3. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    The computer chip is constantly cycling through combinations until the instant you hit the spin button. If a max bet is needed to qualify for a progressive or bonus the payout % would change but only because of the math involved with the jackpot prize not due to the random number computer chip. the chances of seeing certain symbols is the same regardless of bet amount, it's up to RN-Jesus or the RNG at the instant you press spin. Payout percentages are only approached over thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of spins, anything can happen in the few hours we sit in front of the machine giving us the illusion of a machine being "tight" or "loose".
     
  4. nickle

    nickle Low-Roller

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    A friend recently hit a jackpot at a local Indian Casino. She was playing a 25 line machine at a penny a line (total investment of 25 cents per push). Her jackpot was over $1200 !! (I don't know the exact amount, but tax was withheld). It can happen, just not very often.
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Paybacks only change with denomination or coins bet per line if the math behind the game sets the game up to do so. For many modern non-progressive penny slots, the paybacks are identical among numbers of lines chosen and the line denominations chosen as symbol probabilities often do not change. Most modern progressive video penny slot games also scale the probability for you to obtain the progressive based on the amount you wager to keep the overall percentage payback constant among all denominations.

    The RNG itself is basically a black box and has nothing to do with the return. The RNG will just pick random numbers like 52, 49, 27, 96, 9 and place the symbols those numbers represent on payline 1. Then the game will tally your result. The values of the symbols on the reels and their relative populations on each reel are really what determine the payback.

    The Wizard of Odds has very good examples of slot machine math analysis.

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/
     
  6. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Thats how the classic three reel slots work, but not how video slots work.

    With the three reel slots they will usually have a top prize thats listed something like:
    777 with one credit bet = 500 credits
    777 with two credits bet = 1000 credits
    777 with three credits bet (max bet) = 2000

    In that case to get the highest payback you need to bet max.

    Though there are a few exceptions (VERY few) with video slots they are just simply a multiplier of your wager.
    So they might have a crown as one of the game's symbols...
    With a one credit bet five crowns pays 500
    With a two credit bet five crowns pays 1000
    With a five credit bet five crowns pays 2500
    With a ten credit bet five crowns pays 5000

    So it will pay whatever it pays, multiplied by the number of credits bet per line

    Your chance of having some kind of win increases with the number of lines bet - thats just simply the way the games work: the more lines you play the more chances you have to hit something.

    But how many lines you are betting doesn't increase or decrease the machine's payback and nor does it affect your overall chances of coming out ahead.


    That can be better seen if you look at where the house edge comes from and what "payback percentage" is: a machine's payback is how much it is expected, over the long run, to return back to the player, or in other words: it is the chance of an event happening and the return you get when that event happens.

    The easiest way to illustrate that is the flip of a coin:
    If we are going to flip a coin and you bet me $100 that it will be heads and if it is heads I will return your $100 plus give you $100, thats an example of 0% house edge, or 100% payback: the odds it will be heads is 1 in 2 and I am paying you 2 to 1 when it is heads
    An example of a house edge would be: you bet me $100 that it will be heads and if it is heads I will return your $100 plus give you $90, thats an example of 5% house edge, or 95% payback. In this case the odds that it will be heads is still the same 1 in 2 chance, but when it is heads I am only giving you back $190 (your original $100 plus $90 more dollars) so thats: 190 * 1/2 = 95%

    When it comes to how many lines you bet on a slot machine versus its payback, the reason that doesn't change is because when you win, what you win is bigger in relation to your wager the fewer lines you bet.
    You can see this best in roulette: if you put 1 chip on the number 5 your odds of winning are 1 in 38 and if the number 5 comes up you win 36 chips (you win 35 chips plus you get your 1 chip bet back). 36 (what you win) divided by 38 (the odds) = 94.7% payback, or a 5.3% house edge.

    To see the effect of betting more lines in a slot machine you can do that by putting more chips out on the roulette table:
    If you put 1 chip on each of the first 10 numbers your odds of winning are now 10 in 38, but you are wagering more (10 chips versus just 1 chip before).
    If one of your numbers comes up you still get 36 chips back and the payback is still the same: 36/10 (the return over the number of chips bet) divided by 10/38 (your odds of hitting one of your numbers) = 94.7% payback, still the same 5.3% house edge


    With slot machines its effectively the same: betting more lines gives you a better chance of winning *something* but since you are betting more what you do win is less in relation to your wager and therefore the two cancel out (the increased chance to hit versus the increased wager amount) so that in the end you still end up with the same house edge the machine had all along.
     
  7. wisconsin willie

    wisconsin willie Tourist

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    My thanks to all that were kind enough to answer.
     
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