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Table Games Quick craps question

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by clickpopboom, Oct 26, 2014.

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  1. clickpopboom

    clickpopboom Tourist

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    I've been teaching myself craps via the sticky here an a trainer on my phone. With 6 and 8 being common rolls is it a good idea to place a larger odds bet when the point is 6 or 8?
     
  2. FOURTYFOUR

    FOURTYFOUR Tourist

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    While 6 and 8 do come up more often, they don't pay as well either. If you're serious about playing craps, you might want to research some strategies to make the best of your bets.
     
  3. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

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    I'm no craps pro, but I think it's best to play the largest amount of odds on the pass line that you are comfortable with and in line with what the table limits are.

    Most Strip tables will have 3x4x5 odds, with the most odds you can place on the 6 & 8 being 5X, but I always just use double odds on all of my pass line bets as I'm not comfortable putting more than that down. Those 100X tables out there are pretty much wasted on me, so I just look for low minimum wager ($5 usually) and just play from there.
     
  4. Ty

    Ty ?

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    The odds bets have no house advantage. Being the 6 and 8 come up more often they do pay less than the other odds bets. The more you put on any odds bet the better, IMO.
     
    Christmas Trip. Sam's Town & MSS
  5. 1LuckyMomma

    1LuckyMomma Low-Roller

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    I do both depending on how the table is running. If someone rolls the same number more than twice, I press my bets to increase them. When I am shooting, I always bet 2,3, 12 because I roll craps all the time! I believe a 12 pays 30 to 1 and I've collected many times. :)

    6 and 8 are pretty safe bets. They DO come up all the time. However, I won't bet any number heavily unless it starts coming up frequently.

    My original bet is usually just $5-10 on the pass line with odds. As I get ahead, I do place several come bets and add odds. Before you know it, you can have $100 or more on the table at once, even betting conservatively as I do. I LOVE the game! Can't wait to get to the tables this trip!
     
  6. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    I always take max odds as reduces the house advantage.
    In Las Vegas it is 3x on 4 and 10,4x on 5 and 9,5x on 6 and 8.

    If your bankroll will not allow it, start with at least double odds and as numbers points hit increase your odds bet while leaving your pass line bet the same.

    Most craps players will try to have one or two additional numbers working besides the pass line with either place or come bets.
     
  7. TXactuarial

    TXactuarial Low-Roller

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    In terms of percentage, yes. In terms of dollars, no.
     
  8. SARCASTRO

    SARCASTRO Tourist

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    It doesn't matter what the point is, the payout on an odds bet has absolutely no house advantage. How much you want to bet for your odds bet is up to you but no matter what the point is, it is a 50 / 50 bet vs the house.


    that is all
     
  9. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    Nittany1, TXacturial, and Sarcastro are all correct about taking odds.

    Here is an example to explain what taking odds does for you.

    Let's say you have $100 to bet.

    If you put it all on the Pass Line, the House Advantage is 1.4%

    If you put $20 on the Pass Line, and the point is 5 or 9, then you can take 4x odds, so you can put $80 behind your Pass Line bet of $20 for a total of $100.
    Playing this way, you have reduced the HA to about 0.4% on your $100 played.

    But if you put $20 on the Pass Line, and do NOT take the odds, then the HA is back to 1.4%, BUT you are only risking $20, not $100, so your variance will be lower, since you are risking less money with each "Pass Line point" (only $20, not $100)

    So if you want to take full odds, be sure you have a LARGE enough bankroll to last at the table.
     
  10. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Just to clarify on this, odds are not 50/50. It's actually still more likely that the casino wins (a 7 comes up) than that the point is hit. However, you are paid the exact odds of the point coming up vs. the 7, therefore there is no HA. Definitely much different than 50/50.

    For the OP, you are more likely to hit the point on a 6 or 8 than you are on a 5,9,4, or 10. However, you're also paid accordingly for those odds (thus the reason there is no HA). So statistically speaking it doesn't make a difference, however, if your bankroll is on the smaller side to weather the variance of a craps table, then yes, the 6 or 8 would be the points to crank your odds up on if you're inclined to do so.

    Also just another random anecdote for the OP: On a 3x4x5x table your odds payout amount will always be the same. Assuming a $10 table with the max odds, your payout on your odds bet will always be $60.
     
  11. ajp

    ajp High-Roller

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    As of late I have stopped playing the pass line unless I want to shoot. I have been having better luck just placing the numbers I like, and if a number is hitting often I can place it. For me a normal roll on a $5 table would be on the come out I have $1 each on all the hardways working, a $2 two-way 'yo, and depending on how the shooter has been throwing I might throw $5-$25 at a field bet. Once the point is set I place the 6 and 8 for $12 each. Once I hit a 6 or 8 I place the 5 and 9 for $5 each. If I hit a 5 or 9 I press it one unit at a time. If I hit another 6 or 8 I usually place the 4 and 10 for $5 and also press one unit when it hits. If the hardways hit I first double that number to $2, if it hits again I go to $5. If it hits at $5 I go to $10. I don't go higher than $10. If I lose a hardway I buy it back for $1 and start over. I will randomly bet a yo or the field as a shooter is rolling depending how it has been going. Also I always bet the fire for $5 if they have it, or the all bets if they have those and $1 for the crew.
     
  12. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    I never place the 4 and 10, only buy those
     
  13. yoyoseven

    yoyoseven Low-Roller

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    While that's true of most places on the strip, you can find better than 3x, 4x, 5x in Las Vegas. Sam's Town and Main Street Station offer 20x. Most Stations joints offer 10x, as do Golden Gate and Downtown Grand.

    If you want to press aggressively, then find a table that you can start with small odds bets, but increase them rapidly when you catch a hot roll. For example, I usually start with 4-5x odds, and get three numbers working with odds (and keep three numbers working as those bets payout). After I have been paid on three bets with odds (with the same shooter), I double the odds on subsequent pass/come bets until I get paid three more times, and then I double the odds on subsequent bets again. Rarely, but once in a while, I'll get up to 20x odds. (Note that I'm talking about playing on $5 minimum tables, so when fully pressed I've got $100 odds on each bet). It hurts a bit when the inevitable happens, but by then I've already racked a profit on that roll and am playing with house money. It's actually a pretty classic strategy for pass/come bettors. If I'm feeling even more aggressive, I'll get a 4th number working with odds......

    The 3x, 4x, 5x odds on the strip limit the ability to press up the odds without also pressing the flat bet, and the goal for me is to get as much of my bank on the odds as possible instead of on the flat bets. Plus, it's getting pretty hard to find a $5 game on the strip!

    Good luck with whatever strategy you employ!
     
  14. La$Vega$

    La$Vega$ Low-Roller

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    Like others have said here:
    Try to play as close to what the table allows as max odds in relation to your bankroll and how much you want to risk
    As far as probability and the 6/8 being more common rolls in the grand scheme of numbers, Yes, every 3.6 rolls a 6/8 should roll.
    But, in the short scope of you at the table playing the game, imho No, this is rarely the case and the laws of numbers don't hold water.
    The dice do not have a memory, but you do.
    As you play different shooters, date them for a certain amount of rolls and then call the date off. Some players you do not want to date. Some you will date longer than others. Some you will only date when they are into their roll. It's a date, so don't marry them. Perhaps on a monster roll you will sell the farm, but even then it's a good idea to call your $$$ off every now and then.
    Remember the $$$ on the felt at risk can be called off in a dice throw's notice. (let the dealer know ahead of time that you may call off all your action in a moment's notice by saying 'OFF' let the box know this too)
    A dice player's biggest fallacy is not betting the 'hot roll' and never calling their bets off during anyone's rolls.
    The $$$ in your rail & on the felt is your money.
    I prefer to recoup my action $$$ prior to pressing any bet.
    Watch the table for a while before you jump in to see if you wish to get your feet wet.

    Best of Luck!
     
  15. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    In the classic gambling book "Full-Time Gambler" by LG Holloway, he describes 3 types of patterns to monitor: long streaks, short streaks, and choppy play.
    Now, you obviously can't tell ahead of time what type of pattern is going to happen on any given shooter's roll. BUT if you are patient and have a large enough bankroll to stay at the table until the pattern you are looking for occurs and then bet accordingly, in the short term i.e. during the 20 hours in a typical trip to Vegas, you can make some money.

    Pass Line players are looking for the "hot roll" or long streak of points made in a row. But keep in mind this is RARE, for example the chance of a particular shooter hitting 5 points in a row is only 1 in 91. So Pass Line bettors need to hang on and accept that they will lose and lose and lose until that "hot roll" occurs.

    That's why I mostly play the Don't side, where I can win most of the time, but will get wiped out on a "hot roll". I figure if I can avoid the "hot roll" or switch and ride the "hot roll" when it happens, I can make out like a bandit. At least that is the plan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  16. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I tend to treat 6/8 as a single number.
    I place those bets, typically for $12 each. All I am looking for is a profit from those two bets.
    As the odds of one or the other coming up on any given roll are significantly higher than a 7, I will "same bet" the 6/8 twice, locking in a $4 profit. This happens most of the time.
    On the next hit (of either one), I press them both to $18. Then, it's 'same bet' once, and press evenly again. At $24 each number, I then expand to the 5/9, and play those the same way, starting with $10 each.
    (When the point is either 6 or 8, I back up my $5 pass line bet with appropriate odds to closely match the corresponding "companion" place-bet. So, if the point is 6, I take $10 odds and a $12 eight. When the 8 gets to $18, the odds bet goes to $15. The $24 eight means $20 odds for the 6.

    Same play for the 5/9 combination.
    It's a fun way to play with minimal loss exposure.
    The "come" with odds is, mathematically, the better way to play, but I don't do it, as you need one more hit to become profitable versus a place bet.

    Bottom line: The 6/8 combo is your friend. When one of them is the point, make every effort to ensure that your passline/odds total is comparable to your place bet total.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  17. clickpopboom

    clickpopboom Tourist

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    Thank you all for the valuable input. I leave for the airport in a couple hours. We'll see how it goes...
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Caveman

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    good luck!!!
     
  19. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    How is this strategy working for you?

    My guess, not too well (over time).

    You seem to invest quite a bit in center bets which have low house advantage. You ignore the pass line which allows you to bet the only wager with no house advantage, the odds behind the line

    You say you like place bets because if a number is hitting, you can place it. But your strategy seems to do the opposite. When you hit on a 6 or 8, you do not increase the 6 or 8, but you put a bet on the 5 and 9. This sounds like you are more interested in using your winnings to spread around the table, instead of re-investing it in the numbers that are hitting. And you never go above 2 units, even when the number hits over and over. This is the opposite of my approach, which continues to go up a unit each time a number hits. Ride the hot number.

    As always, any "system" could win or lose is the short run. And the short run can be an hour or two. But the longer you hang around, the more likely your system will drain you more quickly than most.
     
  20. ajp

    ajp High-Roller

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    I have $10 in the center on the come out, $4 that will stay most of the time. The 'yo doesnt always hit, but when it does it pays well. I never said I don't press above two units, I am not sure where you got that idea. Also lets say I have $12 on the 6 and 8 but I haven't hit it, but the 5 is hitting, I place the 5 then with my own money and press away. I actually just left the casino about an hour ago, I left up a few hundred from the craps table. And while yes I use the money from the 6 or 8 to place the 5 and 9 I don't always do this, and when I do it is only the first time. So if I hit the 6 and place the 5 and 9, next time I hit the 6 I press one unit on the 6 and collect the rest. I continue to press one unit and collect each time it hits.

    Also I love people that say ride a hot number, each roll is independent of the last, no better shot of hitting a 6 this time just cause I have rolled it 5 other times. Also as far as 0 house edge on the pass line, it is 0% over many many rolls, so it is very possible to lose that money over and over again. I prefer not to play the pass if I am not shooting.
     
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