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Questions for Comps on Craps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by littlepiggie, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    My last trip I was getting murdered on the slots so I tried craps. I was curious how the theoretical works on this game. How much in comps should I earn for the type of action I describe below.

    1. I started small with 300 bucks and put 15 on pass line and 25 on each number. Say 4/5/6/8/9/10. Every Number. I put money out on the hard numbers.
    2. I went on a heater. I had 100-300 on each number. I had anywhere from 75-300 on the hard ways.Roughly 1500+ on the table when I was at the peak of the hot streak
    3. I had avg bet of 400+ dollars for say 7 hours.
    4. What is the theoretical for a better like me who is playing a lot of prop bets and giving a lot of action
    5. I was making large bets for the dealers. I won them 3k plus during my two stints at that table. I know its dumb to bet big for the dealer but I was drunk and having a great time and I felt it was good Karma.
     
  2. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    My understanding of craps rating is that it is dependent on the amount of your play (how much you usually have on the felt) and how long you play. Betting like you do will not allow you to be around long enough to accrue anything.

    If you bought in for $300 and immediately put over half of that in play, you were lucky as hell to last more than 5 minutes at the table. Nine times out of ten, you will be wiped out before the boxman has a chance to even register your play. You may have caught some luck this time, but don't expect it to happen on a regular basis.
     
  3. ernestoc33

    ernestoc33 Low-Roller

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    Jhpa, is right about your Theo/ADT. If you don't have the family nest egg to gamble with you may not get anything.

    The adage if I'm not mistaken is the following. If you wager an average of $25 a hand about every minute you can accumulate maybe $1500 in that hour. That's $1500 wagered, not lost. Depending on where you play that could be 1500 club points or as little as 300. Some big Vegas properties require 400+ per day of your stay to get a room comp. If you play next to nothing the rest of your stay it will drag down your ADT. I would avoid playing at all the rest of your stay for that reason. If your staying comped already you have to gamble each day since the comps count as players club activity for the gaming day. If your play goes down the rest of your stay, your total ADT will be divided by the amount of days you were active there.

    Reasoning for the $25 per wager is that some big name casinos don't rate you on table games at anything less than $25. It always looks good if you play for a long time, even if your bets are smaller in the long run. Just bet above that minimum which varies by players club.

    I would suggest video poker because of the low house advantage and because you can make your original bankroll seem like it was 10 times what it actually was.

    Smaller casino operators such as Boyd, station or Stratosphere are much more liberal with comps and will reward you with more for less play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  4. Polemarch28

    Polemarch28 Tourist

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    In theory, you're betting an average of $150+. That is supposed to get rated. If you played at that level for 4 hours a day, you'd get some decent comps.

    But given your small buy in, the others are correct. They may not get around to putting in a rating for you, simply because most people who drop $300 on the felt are playing with red chips and wouldn't be noticed.

    If you're concerned with comp ratings, and want to ask what a $150 rating will get you at a craps table, it's fair to assume that you're willing to buy in for at least $1,000, right? Because if not, this whole discussion might be moot.
     
  5. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    IF you were playing at a CET property, you would have gotten excellent ratings and theo.

    Craps at CET gets better rating than BJ, Bac and Pai Gow.

    I don't know for MGM though, but being that you bet the inside numbers, you should have gotten good ratings too.
     
  6. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    "Excellent"....I doubt it. Your buy in was much to low to last more than a few minutes. You may have lucked out once by hitting some winners early, but nine times out of ten, you will play for 10 minutes and leave the table. Nobody will give you much for that.
     
  7. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    The OP stated that he was rated for 7 hours at $400 avg bet and his high was at $1500. Based on this info, and if he were to play at CET, he should get excellent ratings.

    Now, I am no expert on craps as Pai Gow is my game of choice. Also, I can only provide info pertaining to experiences at CET, as that's where I play mostly.

    Having said that, I will give you an example of the rating that I received in one of my crap sessions.

    After having such bad luck at Pai Gow, I decided to play some craps.

    I started off betting low, like $200, but after some time I increased it.
    I played for about 8-9 hours (can't remember exactly as it's been awhile) and had an average of a little over $800. I was betting the inside numbers and the hardways as well as the pass line and low odds.

    To my surprise, when I checked, I earned something ridiculous, like 8,000 or 10,000 tier points.

    Surprised, I talked to my several hosts at various CET props, and they informed me that if I bet the inside numbers, I usually will get pretty good ratings.

    I have only played craps may about 3 or 4 times, but when I compared the ratings and theo I earned at CET, it seemed higher than my earnings at Pai Gow.

    You can believe all you want about it's not new money, and what not. Heck, if you believe you won't get decent points for your play at craps, then play something else.

    The only I can do is share with you my personal experiences, so take it for what it's worth.

    Again, I can't speak with authority on other casino companies' crap ratings, but CET gives great ratings for craps.
     
  8. ernestoc33

    ernestoc33 Low-Roller

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    If you take anything from what we all said, its this...You should only play something you like. You should not expect a huge increase in ADT with a low buy in and low initial bet. If you do as good as you did this time again, ask the pit boss to re-evaluate your play once your making huge bets. Bear in mind that Mlife expects more than CET from serious players. If you want lots of comps from a low ADT consider places like station or Boyd whom reward players with more for a lot less. IMO. I personally stick with Boyd because they comp my stays multiple times per year, while with the same amount of play CET and Mlife never gave me much.

    To get a free stay from Mlife your daily needs to be about 250-400+ and CET is about 150-500.

    It varies depending on where you play? Which players club was this?
     
  9. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    The craps was at cosmo. I ended up earning say 900 in comps for the trip which I thought was pretty good. I played craps/slots/BJ. This was for 3 days. I don't know what type of theoretical 900 dollars is. This covered 3 nights Friday/Saturday/Sunday in a Terrace Studio fountain view as well as 200 in charges and 200 in FP. I earned roughly 18k points at cosmo. I started with -20k as they let me cash out my points last trip in error when I already used them.

    I was just curious how much of the comps I earned was from Craps and that is why I asked the question. As for MGM I have no idea how they do things. I hardly get free room offers and then randomly do get them. I stayed at Bellagio for 2 days(called host and they gave them to me) and earned 62k tier points. Only spent 268 dollars on property so most points from slot play. I earned 55 express comps or so. I spoke with the host pre trip and they gave me criteria I needed to cover my free room. At end of trip I asked if my play covered my comp and they said it did and my offers should increase. I never reached the level she said I needed. 6k points a day which I thought was insane as it would translate into 18k coin thru a day to cover a regular room.
     
  10. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    There is a difference between asking "what comps might I have received from this session ($400 average for 7 hours)" versus "If I buy in for $300 and bet $150 of my bankroll on each shooter, what comps should I expect?"

    I agree with LAV that - assuming you play at a $400 average bet for seven hours - you will receive some pretty good comps.

    However, if you buy in at $300 and bet like the OP says with $150 in play on the first roll, he should not expect to last long enough to receive any comps.

    Yes, on this one occassion, he apparently hit early and his $150 on the felt was not washed away with a quick seven out. But my point is that you should not expect a $300 buy in to produce very many 7 hour sessions averaging $400 at a time. My experience is I can buy in for $300 and bet on average $100 and it would last 2 hours.

    I am sure there is some math geek on this board who could advise what the initial buy in would be that would produce even a 50% likelihood that you could bet a $400 average and last even 2 hours. I would imagine it would require a buy in of over $2000.
     
  11. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    The OP was not asking is my risk of ruin early very high.Clearly it is.
    To answer the question of :is $400/hr times 7 hours good play and will it earn comps the answer is yes.
    It is complex as each different bet has different house advantage.
    $400 an hour for 7 hours a day on place bets and hard ways will get you a suite and some food and beverage credit at most properties.
    The other variable you did not specify was over how many days this happened.
    One day you are a big player......over 3 days not so much.
    You said you were betting for the dealers that may make the floor person rating you a little more generous.
    The problem is that a small buy in that gets hot and starts winning will sometimes see the floor people temper the rating to see if the action keeps up.

    I agree with jhpa on "excellent ratings at Caesars"
    I doubt it also.
    I play 90% craps and my initial buy in is usually between $2K and $3K.
    One of the reasons I stopped playing at Caesars properties because they jerked me around with comps and basically did not give me shit for my play.
    If I played slots they would love me.
     
  12. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    Thanks Nittany. It was over 2 days. I played roughly 7-8 hours. I won them roughly 2500 dollars in tips. I was drunk and very generous to the house. What type of bankroll do you bring to vegas to play craps at your level?
     
  13. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    $10K-15K cash
    LOC for $20K
     
  14. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    That would be fun Nittany. NO where better than a hot craps table.
     
  15. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    @ Nittany:
    Far be it from me to disagree with an (asumed) fellow Penn Stater. But this is what the OP said:

    "How much in comps should I earn for the type of action I describe below.

    1. I started small with 300 bucks and put 15 on pass line and 25 on each number. Say 4/5/6/8/9/10. Every Number. I put money out on the hard numbers. "

    My answer is - You will not earn much in comps from this action. Because - except in very unusual circumstances - you will not last long enough to earn a thing.

    He then goes on to describe what most craps players would consider the most successful craps session of their life: turning $300 into god knows how much (he never mentions, but if he won $3000 for the dealers, you would have to assume he won at least five times that amount for himself.) And yes, what he describes would earn pretty good comps. Then again, if I turned $300 into $15,000 and toking the dealers $3000, spending a couple hundred in room charges would be chump change.

    I guess my real problem is, I have trouble believing this actually hapened. And because of that, I would not want anyone to expect they could buy in to a craps game for $300 and expect a seven hour run with a $400 average bet.
     
  16. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    I did not win that much. I was drunk and making prop bets for the dealers. I had a hard 10 for them for 75-100 and 25 on pass line and 125 behind for the dealers on one roll and the point was 10. SO this paid roughly 1k for them. I also was betting about 100 for them and 300 for me. This is dumb play but I did it. I didn't straight out give them 3k worth of money. I just got really lucky and encountered a really hot table
     
  17. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    jhpa Your assumption is correct. We still are.......
    Anyway, the OP does state on the roll he had an average of $400 for 7 hours.
    He later stated the action was over 2 days.
    I was just stating that if he was actually rated at $400 for 7 hours he would see some nice comps.

    Your statement was right on in that betting those stakes with a small buy in would lead to a rapid total loss in most cases.
    Normally a $300 buy in would see smart players betting table minimums and pressing only after recovering their action on the table.
     
  18. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

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    I agree my play was not smart but I got really lucky. I was just curious on the comp rates for craps. Like I know for BJ they assume 2 percent theoretical win or something. SO you play x hands and hour and multiply that by bet. You have total bet amount. YOu take 2 percent of that and then multiply that by whatever comp rate you get. I was just very curious. Again I know its bad play.
     
  19. tora

    tora Tourist

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    My experience has been better crap rating return for similar play from Paris/Ballys (TR) vs Aria/Bellagio (Mlife). I am Diamond at TR and only a Pearl at Mlife. I play only craps for 8-10 hours per day and consistently bet 6&8 for $30 each, pressing every other hit and $11 hard 8 parlayed 3 times. Last week Aria gave me 3 week nights comp standard room and $275 Dining Credit (Julian Serrano Tapas are the bomb!) compared to 5 nights comp Paris Calais Suite, Jersey Boys Tickets and $75 Food credit.

    For your play, you will be getting your offers in the mail soon as they love your kind of action.
     
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