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PRO's at Roulette ???

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by Packer Backer, Dec 2, 2015.

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  1. Packer Backer

    Packer Backer Low-Roller

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    I like reading Bob Dancers weekly Video Poker blog. This week article wasn't about VP but another topic that you can read. BUT!, In his article he says and I quote...

    "This theory works well enough on games of chance --- such as craps and roulette (although there are said to be pros at craps and I KNOW there are pros at roulette). If it is strictly chance, there is no reason for casinos to eliminate anybody. "

    I never really gave much thought about being a Professional player in Roulette as it is all about variance and chance on each roll. But Bob Dancer seems to KNOW you can be a professional roulette player. Maybe I am misreading what he is saying but are there really professional roulette players out there who "figure ' something out about a particular roulette wheel? :eek:

    Just wondering aloud..
     
  2. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds High-Roller

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    I'm assuming he isn't referring to cheats, but perhaps to biased roulette wheels? Or maybe some sort of comp strategy like VP pros?

    There are certainly a lot of people on the internet that think they can beat roulette... or at least sell some sort of system for it. But obviously, if you could make as much as they claim then they definitely wouldn't need to sell strategies for hundreds of dollars.
     
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  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, I'm guessing biased wheels here. Possibly other types of legal/illegal (computer aided) clocking.
     
  4. NewOrleansSlimm

    NewOrleansSlimm Low-Roller

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    i play 2 big sections and a few inbetween... all the numbers together so Its a big section, have a better chance of the ball rolling in one of my numbers

    years ago, I use to play with the same dealers every single day and you could see a pattern with them, certain ones would keep the wheel at one constant speed, others had it going slow then fast...the dealers that were good had the same spins back to back so the ball would fall close to their last number, if it took a weird bounce and landed further away, you followed and played around that number it just hit...I made a good bit of money every night doing that.

    then about 90% of those dealers got walked out for one reason or another

    now the ones they have are all over the wheel, nothing consistant...so I stick to my 2 big area routine, go big on my favorite number and a few around it....its not a guaranteed method but it works ok me
     
  5. Jon E Coyote

    Jon E Coyote Low-Roller

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    ^^^^^ I do the exact same thing, stick to a large wedge or two, and occasionally go with a few random numbers as well, had it work very well, also been killed in 5 minutes
     
  6. Birdie7

    Birdie7 Low-Roller

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    Can you explain what you mean by big area?
     
  7. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.colourbox.com/preview/4723641-roulette-wheel-in-casino-closeup.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.colourbox.com/image/illustration-of-casino-roulette-wheel-3d-rendered-image-1561980&h=534&w=800&tbnid=wOjGr9GH2eYPJM:&q=english+roulette+table&docid=t1_4xOX_Mv6ZmM&ei=0vtfVufZDsGwjwOEmYCQAw&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjnivPBob_JAhVB2GMKHYQMADIQMwh-KFUwVQ

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.colourbox.com/preview/4723641-roulette-wheel-in-casino-closeup.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.colourbox.com/image/illustration-of-casino-roulette-wheel-3d-rendered-image-1561980&h=534&w=800&tbnid=wOjGr9GH2eYPJM:&q=english+roulette+table&docid=t1_4xOX_Mv6ZmM&ei=0vtfVufZDsGwjwOEmYCQAw&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjnivPBob_JAhVB2GMKHYQMADIQMwh-KFUwVQ

    They are talking about areas on the roulette wheel where a grouping f numbers are adjacent. For example, the numbers 13,36,11,30,8 and 23 are all adjacent on the wheel. One strategy is to bet each of these numbers straight up. The thinking being that if the ball bounces out of 36, in this example it might bounce into 11,30,8 or 23 for a winner.

    Two sections just means doing the above but with two sections on the wheel, and they can be bigger, with more numbers, or smaller, with less numbers.

    There are volumes written about strategies that will beat roulette. None of the legal strategies will ever buck the house edge. The best advice I can give is to find a strategy that you are comfortable with and if you hit a few numbers early take the money and run..:peace::beer:
     
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  8. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    There is a theory that if the wheel and dealer are consistent enough, you can eliminate a section of the wheel from where the ball is likely to fall. You only need to eliminate 2 numbers to reduce the house advantage. To make it very simple, you could bet on 35 numbers straight up and leave off the 3 numbers where you guess the ball won't land due to whatever reasoning you have. The game becomes a +EV bet.
     
  9. mattjs33

    mattjs33 Low-Roller

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    This question is timely, as I've been playing a roulette app on my phone for a few weeks now. Everyone knows that a roulette wheel's raison d'etre is to take your money. So I'm not going to claim here that I've discovered a system that "works" but...

    ...it seems to. Slowly but surely my balance has crept up. Now, the one HUGE caveat to this is that I'm playing an app purely for entertainment, and in the interest of keeping me, the game could be spitting out my numbers as it needs to. Curiously, in 6000 spins it has yet to hit 0 and has hit 17 only once. So there is obviously something wrong with its random number generator...

    As I'm not really a gambler I have yet to try my method on a live wheel. But my big question to regular players is, Is a real roulette wheel "more random" than a random number generator, or "less"? Because my guess is, the success of any "system" depends on precisely how random the wheel is.

    Do you know what I mean?
     
  10. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    While the math plays true over the long term and taking account of wheel biases, I still believe the idea that groups of numbers in consecutive blocks improve short term. I am sure there are some mechanics that limit the travel of the ball once it bounces into a block of numbers. I have never seen for example a roulette ball travel around to the opposite side of the wheel after dropping.
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I'm not a roulette player, but I would think one could possibly spot a wheel bias... and certainly a dealer bias - over a reasonably short period of time. I have known players who only bet when the small ball is used, and sit-out when the larger one is used... there must be a reason they have for doing this - and I suspect that it's wheel/dealer bias that occurs with one ball & not the other.

    I know that I cannot beat the game...that's why I don't play it... same reason I don't play slots...
    (Yes - I do play games that, mathematically, I'm not supposed to beat either...but for some reason, I still have so far - UTH specifically....but there's a "fun" factor at work in this case!)
    :beer:
     
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  12. mattjs33

    mattjs33 Low-Roller

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    I'm not sure I buy into this idea of dealer bias. You mean to tell me a dealer is repeatedly studying the spinning of the wheel and releasing the ball at nearly the same time? I'll admit I've not watched a lot of live roulette but the idea of a guy on a several hour shift bothering with that kind of consistent timing seems a bit far-fetched.

    In any case, would you therefore say an automated wheel is "more random" than a live wheel?
     
  13. h0und10

    h0und10 Low-Roller

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    dealing is pretty tedious.. i could see plenty of them "trying" to have it land on a certain number and testing out new spins.. They gotta keep them entertained somehow.. some blackjack dealers that i know keep the "count" as they just get bored and try to stay busy to pass the time.
     
  14. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    People believe in Santa Claus too.
     
  15. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I don't think it would be that difficult to release the ball at about the same point in the wheel every time...even it that general area was otherwise unnotable...say, for example, the dealer had a habit of always releasing the ball right when he sees the zero pass by. This could (I would think) result in a "bias" as to the group of numbers most likely to hit on given number of spins... and, yes - an automated wheel would definitely be more "random" than a live one, assuming no wheel bias.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  16. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds High-Roller

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    I could see a dealer being able to release the ball at the same spot on the wheel, but at the exact same speed that allows it to slow and hit the wheel at the exact same spot seems crazy. Because it's not where it starts, but when it slows down and falls into the wheel that really matters. And combine that with how it hits and bounces around, that's what makes it random.

    Think about how sometimes the ball only bounces lightly and lands just a few spots from where it entered the wheel, vs where it bounces several times and lands on the complete opposite side. Don't see how any control over the release of the ball would overcome that randomness.
     
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  17. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    You're right about the light bounces versus the heavy ones... but suppose all of the "light ones" - the ones that hit into a number after just one or two bounces - show a predicable pattern... That would still be advantageous, even if it only occurred a third of the time.

    But hey - I'm just W.A.G.-ing on this... I don't play the game and don't particularly like it... just speculating.
     
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  18. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    Just because something can't be predicted with absolute certainty doesn't mean the information isn't useful. If you could predict the point where the ball is going to drop relative to the wheel you wouldn't win every spin but you would crush the casino in the long run by betting the numbers around the drop zone. Unfortunately, you aren't going to predict this drop point relative to the wheel without clocking the wheel speed and ball speed with significant accuracy, requiring more equipment than your brain. Therefore not legally in US casinos.

    And LOL at people saying a dealer can control how they introduce the ball to the wheel in a way to influence where it will drop.
     
  19. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    One big problem with counting on a dealer bias is how quickly they change the dealer when you're doing well.

    There's no other game they do that with. So they obviously know that it exists.
     
  20. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    What do you mean, "believe in Santa Claus"? He's coming to my house in about three weeks.
     
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