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professional gamblers?

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by firstkill, Aug 22, 2014.

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  1. firstkill

    firstkill High-Roller

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    Anyone know a professional gambler? Not including day traders or poker players


    I figure theres a few types.

    1. the person who is betting, and living "paycheck to paycheck" that his meals/rent/housing total depends on their wins/losses
    2. the person who worked hard/inherited some large lump sum cash and is gambling with a strict amount they are trying to win.

    If you have randomly 300,000 saved up. retired from your "real" job. Would it be possible to Martingale your way to win $500 a day?
    Assuming a 250 days a year for working, that would be 125,000 a year. (ill ignore taxes for this scenario)

    some common table spreads Ive seen are 10 min with 5k max, that means you can probably get 8 hands or spins in a row.

    fk
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I know someone that works for a professional gambler. You're forgetting sports bettors.

    As for your other question, can you martingale your way to $500 a day? Sure, its possible. It is likely to work, hell no! Even if you're trying to live off gambling funds every day, there are better ways to do it than martingale. I go to casinos about once a month and I would say almost every trip I either experience or observe a streak of at least eight losses. And if your scenario starts your martingale strategy at $10 a bet, it will take you forever to reach your daily $500 goal. You would have to win fifty bets daily without hitting your 8 lost hand streak. So it is possible, sure. But it seems like an awful idea to me.
     
  3. IxAccDnf

    IxAccDnf VIP Whale

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    I know a few
     
  4. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    yep I know a few counters that celebrate or show off and brag about their big wins, but they're usually single guys in a 1bd, 1 ba apt and you can tell that yearly? yeah it's a $10/hr gig, umm skip
     
  5. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Martingale system is dangerous. I'm sure all us degenerates have thought about it...
     
  6. Ty

    Ty ?

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    I agree and the casinos know more about it than us.
     
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  7. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty native Texan; born and bred.

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    I see them every trip playing a Nickle at a time for a drink and asking if I have an extra smoke. They dress down and the men don't shave usually.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  8. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I met this craps player at the Orleans back in 2012. He was retired military, which I figure puts him between mid forties or older. He came across as a friendly fellow and was clean cut and dressed well.

    He told me his military retirement pay he gives to his wife and he plays with his "gambling bankroll", which he says stresses him out daily because he knows too well how easy it is to lose it.

    He's a tried and true darkside player, carries a notebook with him and records data as he plays. He also just grinds it out at table minimums and quits for the day after reaching his win goal or stop loss. ( Of which he didn't chose to disclose.)

    He claims to have no other job, has an understanding with his wife as to this is what he wants to do with his retired life; as long as he doesn't touch the retirement money.

    I often wonder how he's doing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  9. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    I'm a professional gambler. I file as such via Schedule C on my income taxes and have for the past 5 years. For years it was just a side job. However, I took the plunge to fulltime early in 2013 when I realized I was giving up opportunity cost to remain at a job I didn't like with 4 hours of commuting each day. With the exception of UKFanatic, everyone in this thread has described someone who can "afford" to gamble, but not someone who can make income at it. I consider myself my own personal hedge fund. I make money in casinos in a variety of ways. Every casino game can be beaten under the right circumstances...sometimes those circumstances occur through normal fluctuation of cards, other times through dealer error. Casinos make money hand over fist, they also spend a ton of money to entice players to gamble at their casinos. I operate on the inverse of that equation, I take their money they give out to entice me in, and I lose back less than that to their games. My losses are exaggerated, my wins are hidden. I make money in ways that while legal are known to only a handful of skilled players.

    Make no mistake, being a professional gambler is a grind. I probably work more hours at it than I ever did as an IT Professional. When casinos find out how much I've made off them, they tend to react angrily. I've been harassed by casino security, I've been backroomed, arrested, and charged with fictitious crimes when local law enforcement operates on behalf of their county's largest taxpayer. I've had big wins and big losses, but all the while I'm more concerned with my Expected Value. Sometimes a play might be glamorous with an RFB stay in a suite while I bet yellow chips into an insane edge at a game everyone thinks I'm a sucker for playing. Sometimes a play might be soul-crushing with a stay in no-name motel 5 miles from the casino while I bet red chips so that the casino doesn't notice that I'm signaling another player to come in and bet yellow when the insane edge appears.

    If anyone ever tells you in a casino they are a professional gambler, they're lying or they are a loser. A winning player would never disclose that in a casino. In fact, I don't disclose it outside of a casino either. To everyone but my immediate family, I'm a self-employed consultant. The anonymity of the internet makes it easier to do here.
     
  10. firstkill

    firstkill High-Roller

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    just curious what made you want to switch your career completely? I figure most people would rather move and do the same job or change their job into a related field.

    From tv/movies/books. The only ones that could be beat was
    1. blackjack counting
    2. roulette from watching the same wheel with many spins to see what the "wheel" favored over time. Im not sure if they move the wheels around the casino anymore.

    both of those must be a grind, and stressful. I wonder how people make the decision on the "stopping" point. As a casual gamer, I guess its just by feel and gut. But to do it professionally to earn money that you actually need to pay rent/food it must be tough.

    fk
     
  11. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    I left my full-time job when it became obvious that I was costing myself lost income by being tied up with that job for 50-60hrs/week and that the income from that job was less than what I was missing out on as a full-time professional Advantage Player. Of course, when you go from working for an employer to being self-employed you find the harsh realities of healthcare costs and paying both sides of employment taxes such as Social Security and Medicare. However, you also open up a whole new world of tax deductions.

    As for what I play, I haven't counted at BJ for about 4 years. The edge is low and it's very obvious to the casino what you are doing. You won't have a long career if all you do is count cards. I've done roulette clocking but I find it very inefficient and only practical outside the US. As for a stopping point, you only want to be playing in situations where you have a positive expectation (+EV)...if you are wagering in -EV situations you are gambling. The key to being a professional gambler is to limit your -EV gambling and maximize your +EV play.
     
  12. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    What is roulette clocking? Is it looking for numbers that hit more frequent than others over a long run?
     
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    You're leaving out poker (more skill than the other players) and sports betting (where you can have superior knowledge to the house and take advantage of it).

    I would not include defective roulette. I think that is pretty rare these days. Plus, I don't consider a defective game as "beatable". There's no quantifiable edge that can be repeated. There's the story last year of the pre-shuffled baccarat shoe that was not actually shuffled (the cards came out in order). Those gamblers made some money, but I still would not consider baccarat to be a beatable game.
     
  14. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Yes. Its essentially looking for defective wheels that win on certain numbers or collections of numbers more often. There are documented stories of teams of gamblers years ago monitoring defective wheels and then making a killing. I think casinos have pretty much eliminated that now (except I have no idea about outside the US, as CJ references)
     
  15. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    OK, well now I am very curious. If I recall your TRs from years past correctly, I remember your playing a fair amount of VP and slots. I know there are some VP machines with a more than 100% return, but I don't recall you mentioning any of them in your TRs. Are slots and VP your positive expectation games now?
     
  16. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Some tables games with the worst house edge, can actually have a very good player advantage. I have zero personal experience though...just read about them. These table games are carnival pit games like, mississipi stud and high card flush. I think i read hcf actually has a double digit player advantage with a full table and collusion between players. Although, you are not supposed to show your hand to other players, i find some casinos do not care and some even deal some of these games face up anyways. HCF is probably the biggest +EV with collusion, which is why i think many casinos table max at $100 or $200. This makes it too much of a grind for serious AP players, and especially so for a team.
     
  17. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    From my past TR's you'd definitely find a lot of VP play, not so much slots. What I don't put in my Vegas TR's is any AP play I might be doing outside of what I use to garner generous comps. I definitely don't need to explain to you, UK, about what kind of comps can be had for various amount of theo. House edge is not always the same as theo. I think you'll always find screenshots of my jackpots are on games returning 99% or more. However, they're usually on games which the casino might list as a 97.5% return in terms of theo. If the casino "theorizes" I am losing at a rate 5x what I'm actually losing at, then I stand to come out ahead after comps. Additionally, some comps can be resold...such as tickets to the fight in 3 weeks. My expected loss in playing for those tickets will be less than what I stand to profit from re-selling the tickets thanks to theo > HA. That's just comp play though, I don't think I could support my family on just comp hustling. Vegas is the comp hustling capital of the world...but most of my actually gambling for income comes from the smoky crappy casinos you find all over the country.
     
  18. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    Very good summation.
     
  19. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    I guarantee it that you have had at least one loss that equals to hundreds if not thousands of tickets.

    I'm curious on your technique as a pro gambler if you don't count, sports bet or play poker. If you don't mind sharing.
     
  20. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Got it. Thanks
     
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