1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Slots Predetermined picks?

Discussion in 'Slots' started by winner, Aug 5, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. winner

    winner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    ok the way i understand it is, when you push a button or pull the lever, the RNG gives a winning amount then the reels stop to match the payout, now the big question is when you hit a bonus round and say you are able to select boxes with different amounts or additional spins are these also predetermined by the RNG? usually after you make your picks all available boxes open up to show you the other amounts that you missed, lets says you only have 3 boxes for 100 500 and 1000 does the machine give you the predetermined amount regardless of the box you pick changing the icon to match the predetermined amount, ugggh those dam computers LOL
     
  2. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    999
    As I understand it, when you push the button the RNG assigns a landing value for each wheel. After the wheels stop at those positions the payout is calculated. I've never read that the RNG decides the winning payout, but if you have a reference I'll be interested in reading it.

    But I don't play slots anyway. I don't have a dog in that fight.
     
  3. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,749
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    You have a couple of different things going on in your post, but to go right to your main question:

    No, it is random. Before you select a box, the computer assigns a prize to each box and so whatever one you pick is the one you get.

    Maybe 10-15+ years ago this how people thought slots worked: you are betting 3 quarters, you push spin and the computer inside determines you win $15 so it spins the reels and aligns them so a winning combination that would pay $15 comes up...

    But that isn't how they work:

    Each reel, video or physical, has a number of "stops" on the reel and each stop is assigned a space on the reel.

    When you push "SPIN" the machine will "spin" the reels and go get a number from the random number generator. It will then stop the reel on whatever "stop" that number corresponds to on reel #1.

    The computer will then go back to the random number generator and get another number and then stop reel #2 on whatever "stop" that number corresponds to.

    And it will do this for the third reel and keep going back for however many reels it has.

    So if a slot machine has three reels and each reel had only 10 "stops" it might go to the random number generator and come back with a number 4, then a number 2 and finally a number 10. It will check its stops and the 4 might be a cherry, the 2 might be a blank and the 10 is maybe a "7" symbol... so it will stop the reels so they show a cherry, a blank and then a seven, then consult its pay table and see that one cherry pays 2 credits times by number of credits bet and so you would win 6 credits in this case (since you are betting 3 credits per spin).

    Because the symbols are "weighted", that is how frequently they appear on each reel, this is how the pay table and payback is determined for the machine.

    So the more common, lower paying symbols, will have more "stops" assigned to them and the less common, rarer jackpot type symbols, will have fewer stops.

    As an example: on most classic three reel type slot machines from a few years ago each reel would have 20 stops and the top prize symbol only had one stop for each reel so the odds of hitting the big prize was 1 in 8000 and would typically pay 2,000 credits times bet or maybe only 1000 to 1200 if the machine had more smaller prizes possible.
     
  4. winner

    winner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    thanks for the explanation, it was a while ago that i read the explanation about the RNG i'll see if i can locate it and reference it
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,907
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    To be honest, it can be both based on how it is programmed and state laws. In most "class III" jurisdictions like Vegas, I believe from what I have read that usually your choice/timing does matter for bonus games like this (i.e. the values are placed in the boxes and your choice matters (or the values constantly cycle in the boxes and your timing matters), it could be either way really. However, I don't think it's illegal to do it this in the following way. Randomly determine your win from the boxes before entering the bonus round and place your win in your box choice. As long as you were equally likely to win what was inside of each box shown, that would still be legal. However, from what I have read from actual slot designers on other forums, I tend to believe this method of predetermination is not common. Unless...

    Your casino requires it. This mainly applies to casinos or racinos that are only allowed to participate in Class II gaming (aka electronic bingo). In this case your overall win MUST be determined from the bingo draw, so in this case any second screen bonus with different boxes to choose from MUST be predetermined.

    Does it matter which way it's done as long as it's equally likely? Not really.
     
  6. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    Auggie is absolutely correct about the description of the RNG and the positions on the reels. The last detail is that the machine actually has 'virtual' reels, not just physical reels. You can't determine how likely something is just by counting the number of times you can see it on each reel. The virtual reel might have 300 stops on it, even though the physical reel has only 20. The jackpot symbol might appear on the virtual reel only once, so your chance of hitting it on that reel is really 300 to 1, not 20 to 1. The random number generator simply comes up with a random number between 1 and 300, and then matches that to the corresponding stop on then virtual reel. The last step is to instruct the mechanical reel to display the correct symbol.

    Because it is impossible to know the virtual reel layout, you can't calculate the real odds on a slot machine.

    The RNG just picks stops on the virtual reels. Only after they are combined will it know if you won anything or not, and how much.
     
  7. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    My experience with the 'bingo' type machines seemed to be that if you won the 'bingo drawing' for that spin, you were guaranteed to win something on that spin, but what you won was basically random. It seemed the bingo was a binary thing, either a winner or loser. Somehow, I guess I was competing with some collection of other players on that particular bingo drawing. After a bingo win, it would always display some winning combination on the reels, winning a small or large amount. If felt like the actual win amount was determined randomly.

    Weird system, for sure. I can't see how these governments they think this is less 'evil' than just regular RNG machines...
     
  8. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,787
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    23
    I think it's not so much an issue of "evil", as it is fitting things into existing laws. In New York, for example, Class II gaming is permitted, but Class III gaming isn't, and to change that requires a constitutional amendment and all sorts of other legal wrangling (they're in the midst of that now), all of which takes time. This all, I'm sure, pre-dates the creation of Class II server-based games that look exactly like "regular" slot machines. So the Class II lottery-based games they have at the racinos are a way of allowing gambling within current legal framework.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.