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Please explain "coin in"

Discussion in 'Comps' started by majorminor, Feb 17, 2015.

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  1. majorminor

    majorminor Tourist

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    How is it calculated and why is it important to comps? I know it sounds simple but I read about folks targeting several thousand in coin in per day and I must don't understand. Are they really betting that much money or just moving money around from machine to machine? I'm confused...
     
  2. powersof10

    powersof10 Tourist

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    It's just the amount of money you cycle through the machine. You might start by putting in $100 but you'll cycle more than that through the machine before you lose it all (or hopefully win!) by re-betting your winnings. Your comps are based on a percentage of your expected loss for whatever machine it is.
     
  3. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Yeah, a really simple example would be:

    You put $1 in a slot machine and its 50 cents to play.
    You pull the lever and get... nothing
    You pull the lever again and get... nothing

    So now you have no money left in the machine. YOu played exactly $1 through (2 pulls at 50 cents each) so your coin through is $1

    If you won something along the way but kept playing, thats where your coin through can get to larger amounts, an example there would be:

    You put $1 in a slot machine and its 50 cents to play.
    You pull the lever and get... two cherries... you win $2
    You pull the lever and get... nothing

    At this point you played your $1 through, but you still have $2 in the machine: thats the money you won on the first spin.

    So you pull the lever again and get... nothing
    You play again and get... nothing
    You play again and get... nothing
    You play again and get... nothing

    So now you have no credits left in the machine: you played your initial $1 through and you played the $2 you won through.
    Now in this case here you would say your "coin in" is $3 ($1 you initially started with plus $2 you won)

    As was said above: if you buy in with $100 and the machine is 20 cents a spin, it is unlikely you are only going to play 500 spins (playing the $100 through once) and then get up and leave. Instead as you are playing you are going to win a little, lose a little and you might keep on playing, cycling your winnings through the machine. On a low volatility machine at 20 cents a spin you could probably draw that $100 out to six or seven hours worth of play before its all gone and end up with thousands of dollars in "coin in"

    And that is why the casino looks at coin in for determining comps: if they only looked at your buy in you could walk up to a machine, put in a $100 bill, play two or three spins and then cash out. They can't go and give a loser who doesn't play but happens to have a hundred dollar bill in his pocket comps - thats not the purpose of comps (the purpose being to get gamblers to stay and play).

    So they use coin in because that is a proper reflection of how much you are theoretically losing: if you start by putting a $100 in to a machine and play it for hours they know that it increases the likelihood that you are going to lose that whole $100 to them, something that just tracking how much money you have in a machine or in your bank account won't tell them.
     
  4. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    man, these descriptions sure are complicated!

    coin-in is the total amount of money you bet. that's it.

    let's say you press the button and bet $2 and you do that 100 times, your coin-in is $200.

    how much money you put into the machine has no factor.
     
  5. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Correct in that it is the total dollar bet. It does not matter how much you put in.

    Why is coin in important? Actually pretty basic stuff.

    The casino has to value everyone on what level of gambler they are. Everytime you place a bet, the casino overall will get some of it back. Maybe not on that spin, or that bet. But, overall they calculate the total you bet and determine what you are worth to them. Pretty simple if you were to think through it.

    Hint - except for BIG spenders, they really do not care much about your wins and losses. Just how much your AVERAGE DAILY (or trip) play is worth.
     
  6. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    More than likely the term started when you actually had to put coins into the machine each time to spin. So you would put in 3 quarters and spin, 3 more quarters and spin, repeat, repeat, repeat..... If you were to count all of those quarters that literally would be your "coin-in". :)
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Well said. If today somebody put in $3 coins, then took out the winnings every time, then put in 3 more coins (bills) that would also be coin in. Nowadays, we can let it sit in machine for us, put each spin is THE same thing as putting coin in.
     
  8. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    I am glad shifter got the thread back on track. As numeno pointed out, coin in was easier to grasp when there were actual coins to put in.

    The casino believes that it will get a little piece of every coin or credit you play, so it uses rewards to encourage you to play as many coins as possible. It doesn't matter to the casino if you are playing with recycled winnings or putting in more bills.
     
  9. majorminor

    majorminor Tourist

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    Great, I think I got it. So if I sit down at a VP machine playing .25 a hand and play if for an hour or so and play 200 hands that would be $50 coin in correct?
     
  10. Grid

    Grid VIP Whale

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    Correct. Now during your session you actually come out $50.00 ahead your coin in would still be $50 and your actual loss would be $0.00. So you built up coin-in for free. And thats how so many of us have such a high coin in. You win and lose as you go so the coin-in keeps grinding. You might spin a $3.00 bet and turn that into $300. Even if you dont win a single thing the next 100 spins you still turned $3.00 of real money into $300 of coin in. Hope that makes it easier.
     
  11. majorminor

    majorminor Tourist

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    That does make it easier. Thanks everyone!
    Last question: is coin-in is tracked on your players card and is the info readily available?
     
  12. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Tracked yes. Readily available....yes and no. At CET properties it's pretty easy. When you put a card in you will see a COUNTDOWN and then a number. When the countdown reaches 0 you earn 1 poiint and the countdown restarts. Slots at CET are typically $5 per point and video poker is $10 per point. So let's say you're on a penny slot at Ceaser's. You put your card in the COUNTDOWN should read 500 as it takes 500 credits to earn a point. You do a 50 cent spin and it goes down to 450. At the end of the session if you see you have 50 points, you can deduce you did $250 coin in. Every corporation does the points at different rates but not all points are created equal.
     
  13. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Yes, it is tracked. I have never wanted to know, but others here keep track of their own coin in and will tell you how to do it..

    Just for the record, you are correct that 200 hands of quarter VP at one coin per hand earns you $50 coin in. However, most people play faster than 200 hands per hour, and you are giving up expected value by not playing five coins per hand. Your loss per hour may be smaller when you play only one coin, because your coin in is much lower, but the house keeps a little more of every quarter you bet and you lose out on the big royal flush bonus.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  14. Grid

    Grid VIP Whale

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    Its important to point out that at CET casinos you will get your total for the day just by putting your card in a machine when you are done to check. BUT it will only give you your totals at that one casino. You would have to keep track at each casino for your daily coin-in. It does not hurt you to hop around casinos that take the same card. You will get offers based on your total gambling. Some say its better to focus at one property for specific offers. But the corporate offers dont seem to change. i get offers to properties directly that I have never stepped foot in.

    And to answer your earlier question on why its important. It shows the casino what type of player you are. They can gauge how much you gamble and comp based on that. Thats why gamblers track these sort of things. If i have $10K coin in at Ballys and they only offer me $50 in free play and a room for 1 night. I can check that against Mirage where the same Coin-in would get me a room for 3 nights and $100 (just as an example) It also helps when you are dealing with a host or shopping your play at a new casino.

    i can call a host at the Tropicana and tell them i want to play there for the 1st time and my Coin-In is $10K per day. You shouldn't lie and burn a host so its good stuff to know.
     
  15. majorminor

    majorminor Tourist

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    Excellent info guys, thanks again! My VP example was just for clarity, I usually play max bet on quarters. No clue how many hands per hour though. It's usually wife and I sitting next to each other, chatting, drinking, etc. I guess if I'm really focused and jamming away it could easily be 400+ hands per hour. I really like the bar tops and I'm sure I play slower there as we are usually looking around more, watching TV, chatting with the bartenders, etc. I know the pay tables are typically worse but I like the social aspect more and always having a drink and slow playing seems to make my entertainment dollar last longer!

    Booking a trip soon for end of April. Can't wait! We're definitely low rollers and our comps on last trip a couple years ago were minimal - no free offers or anything and none were expected. Have a little bigger bankroll this time and although not chasing comps just interested to know a bit more about them as we might make this an annual trip from now on...

    Again, thanks for all the help!
     
  16. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Well, this could be complicated because a newbie could view this as if I bet $2 100 times my coin-in is $200 but so is what I spent (assuming each spin was a loss).
    That description doesn't cover the possibility that a person could actually bet $2 100 times, win $2 50 times and lose $2 50 time (or any variation) and could possibly have $0 out of pocket expense yet the total coin-in is $200.

    Even though in this scenario $0 money was spent the casino still views it as though $200 was gambled and that is used to calculate comps.

    Although calculating comps is a whole other thread here is a high level overview of how it works.

    Say the coin-in for your total stay was $10,000.
    That amount is calculated base on the expected percentage of the game played.
    If it was all slots and the expected loss is 10% then the casino figures it will make $1,000 per $10,000 coin in.
    A host can comp up to 30% of that (that number can vary) so in the above you could get about $300 worth of comps.
    The above is sort of how my host explained it to me.
     
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