1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Plaza Poker Pro

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by dewey089, Jan 19, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Anyone played this electronic game?
    I missed that they opened last year. I'd have at least looked at it. I liked the Excalibur machines because they had a small rake.
    Is it all no limit?
    Curious
     
  2. Sinatraatthesands

    Sinatraatthesands Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    They can set it up for anything players want. i even saw they were having an Omaha tourney or cash games there a while back. I think they'll even do 25 50 cent for players who want it. I don't think they get a lot of players but I could be wrong, haven't checked it out i just saw some things they posted in a thread on AVP.
     
  3. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Thanks. I have a feeling there are most likely never enough for a game. it seemed a rather foolish move since Excalibur did not work out.
     
  4. Avsman17

    Avsman17 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    Gloucester, VA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    I liked the electronic tables at Excalibur. We were able to set up a private table for peanuts
     
  5. QIKFIX

    QIKFIX Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    380
    Location:
    Australia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    Yeah it will be tough to get a good / regular game going.

    Having said that I will support the cause when i'm next in town.

    Usually see these on the cruise ships now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  6. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I don't play live poker so I don't know the details of what game they were playing or what denomination, but I walked past the Plaza poker room on Sunday (Feb 9th) and there were people playing at two of the tables there. This was at about 3pm.
     
  7. James123

    James123 Tourist

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Right level of FL Hold'Em to play

    ........
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  8. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Washington D.C.
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I absolutely hated the Excalibur machines. I like holding the chips and cards in my hand too much. It was like playing at your computer at home but being able to physically see the other players that you're playing against. If I wanted that, I'd just stay home and skip the casino.

    Worst idea in the world, IMO.
     
  9. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Well, I think the majority of the players agreed with you.
    The electronic games did not seem to catch on.

    I could never see the comparison with solo home play.
    It is electronic, but I could not only see, but joke and talk to the other players and in some cases do it more freely because dealers did not jump into every conversation. It never felt like playing at home.

    Many chip and card game errors could not be made at these electronic tables: all those out of turn plays, all those misdealt and early revealed cards, all those wild tosses of folded cards that require a card protector.
    Impossible.

    There was no need to watch every detail of the dealing to see it was done correctly, or to try to figure when a quiet spoken guy was raising or just calling.
    I did not have to fear a dealer might by mistake pick up my cards or misread the winning hand and pay another player my pot.

    No dealer monitoring was necessary.

    At Excalibur that was a real benefit because they would bring in a pretty fine looking stripper who danced around a pole, so who wanted to keep watching for dealer error?

    And I like a lower rake. And I like that the machine required no one dollar tip out of every pot.
    And I liked not having to wait for dealers to change or for chips to be reloaded in dealer trays or for those big old collection boxes to be collected by big guards who knew just how to bump the knees.

    Also, I liked that the more sophisticated players had to learn an entirely new set of tells.
    I'm not too sophisticated. It gave them less of an edge over me.
    I also like that it often attracts less sophisticated players so the table selection issue is more in my favor.
    Slot players might feel more comfortable at this game than one with chips and cards.

    Monitoring play time for comps would be more possible too. The largest live games downtown right now, those at the Nugget, earn food comps that are only good on one day. They are earned after four hours of play; there are no additional comps earned when playing hour 5 to whatever. It is done without any real electronic record of play so I feel I have to remind the floor when I come in, and look at my watch, and know just when I started to play.

    And I liked that my arthritic fingers did not have to manage to get chips unstuck or load them without dropping into trays at cash out.

    I very much liked it that the chips (the dirtiest bits of shared material in the entire casino) were not passing around all the current diseases of the other players to every player at the table. I can take a wipe to the play area and I am good to go.

    In some places too, I liked the lower stakes, so I've played the Four Winds Lake Michigan electronic game when it was 50 cent and one dollar blinds. It may have been like that in Excalibur. Perhaps it is at the Plaza. No one has given much poker detail yet.

    Since we have plenty of live games and chips for your taste, Undersea, I'd be interested if some venues offered this variety for me and other folks who like this sort of game. I also think it might allow the casinos that can't support person dealt games and keep closing down poker rooms to still offer live poker.
    That is clearly what happened at the Four Winds.
    That could redeem the El Cortez.
    In fact, it might put a live poker game into every downtown casino instead of just two. I'd love it if the Four Queens had one because that is where I like best to play.

    When the Plaza had a live game, they had to limit the hours because they did not have the staff, and they would actually close down full tables. I suspect if their electronic game becomes popular, it will stay open as long as there are players.
     
  10. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Washington D.C.
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    It may be a solution for closed rooms, but if I remember correctly, there was someone setting up the accounts and dealing with taking money, etc and someone acting as the floor. So, there was at least two people manning the poker room. If memory serves correct, most dealers operate on tips only (probably server's wages for tax purposes). If they have to keep two people to manage the tables at all times, it's almost the same as having three or four real tables with free poker dealers (one floor manager and one host). Unless you just can't get dealers.

    I just don't think poker is popular enough to warrant the space in the casino. Those tables (even the electronic ones with the lower rake) must earn enough money to warrant the space that they take up on the casino floor. Otherwise the right decision is to remove them and put in something that will generate revenue while having a much smaller footprint.

    You feel the opposite about live poker than I do. I like human aspect of the game. I like small controversy. I like that some people don't pay attention or know the rules. I like having a dealer, especially one that's very good. All of that works in my favor and not against me. I like that action is not rushed and I like that I can count my chips before I make a bet. I like that I can call my bet first and know that if I've made a mistake in counting my chips, my bet is still good. If I fat-finger my bet on a machine, I'm screwed.

    I think for this concept to be successful, they should turn it into an upright slot machine. Walk up, throw your hundred in the money slot, and jump in to a networked, online game... play against other players scattered across multiple casinos all sitting at their own slot machine terminal. When you're done, cash out like you would any slot machine, and walk away.

    Takes up the same footprint as a slot machine and it's not dependent on having 5-10 people all in the same place at the same time.
     
  11. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    I' puzzled with some of this.
    I never felt any more rushed. It is my turn until I act. There is no timer rushing me to make a decision.
    Fat fingers won't matter much or I'd be in trouble with arthritis. A player will have to confirm the bet once it is made, and most players play with the edge of a plastic card and not with fingers.
    For those readers who may not have tried this game, it is very hard to make a mistake unless you don't pay attention to what you have done and confirm brainlessly. Often players set up a bet, pull it back, change it, and then confirm when they are certain, just as chip players play with piles of chips that don't cross the line. The line is determined when the player confirms the details of the established bet and no one needs to be rushed.

    This is really confusing.
    Your chips are all counted in numbers for you always and that numbered information is right where you can see it, so you are unlikely to make any counting mistake, and just like games with cards, if you are short chips for a call, you are all-in and a separate pot is created.

    Only the dealer won't mistake the sizes of side pots, so you don't have to do that math along with him.

    I DO like the human aspect of the game. The only human missing is the dealer. All the other humans are there to talk and joke with, the banter can be the same, to verbally bluff, to do all the things inside and outside the game that players do.
    I guess if you need the dealer to experience human interaction, you are at a loss, but all the other aspects of human interaction are right there.

    I'm not sure what a "good" dealer can do for you except approach the perfection of the electronics.
    And I don't always get "good" dealers.
    Fewer and fewer seem to be calling the games and that annoys me while we wait for someone who does not know it is his turn to begin to think and act. The electronic game is electronically monitored and it tells each player when it is time to act.

    Everything I read suggests that it requires less people to run this sort of poker, and is cheaper for the casino. The "floor" can do other jobs in the area. If you took the old El Cortez room and transformed it, you would have just one floor person, but not have to pay three or four dealers who do get a salary along with the tip coming out of every winning pot. Nor would a casino have to manage what time they arrive based on what game might be offered. I've often sat in rooms with empty tables while we waited for a dealer to arrive to deal to start the game.

    However, for folks reading this thread, I really hoped to glean some detailed information on the particular game at the Plaza. So, if anyone is tempted to play or even just watch, toss some details this way. I won't get to Vegas now for a while now and I'm curious as to just how this particular electronic game is set up and whether it may be developing a niche not taped by Binions or the Nugget.
     
  12. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Washington D.C.
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I felt rushed and fumbled around with the keys and made an incorrect bet when I played at the Excalibur. Everyone was so focused on what key to push that no one was very chatty during the game.

    Sometimes you grab the wrong amount of chips when you had a different bet in mind. You can call the bet before placing your chips on the table and the bet stands regardless how many chips you stick in the middle (too many or too few).

    You may be right that it's cheaper for the casino to operate the game. The one thing I do know is this: If they are charging a smaller rake at smaller stakes, the game probably won't last too long. You still need to pay for the host and the floor person and if they're making pennies on each hand it's not going to be too long before someone figures out how they can reinvent that space to make more money.
     
  13. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    I sounds like your experience at the Excalibur happened before many folks were very familiar with the game. My experience was later and the betting went smoothly enough that most of us enjoyed the stripper as well as the action.
    And at the Four Winds the players were all familiar regulars.

    Certainly you are right that the life of these games seems short. I'm hoping that it will still be there at the Plaza when I get there so I can try it out. We'll see.

    It also may happen that over time the games come back because the young are less intimidated or confused by electronics and they replace the old folks who dominate games now.

    I was surprised to see it emerge again at the renovated Plaza. But it may have a higher rake than those I liked at Excalibur.
    I also don't tend to play no limit in Vegas as much as limit. I like to play limit at the Nugget in the early morning when the bonus high hand awards are doubled and I can earn my breakfast.
    All no limit games seem less social, and I have to consider much more than those simple choices at limit so that the individual stories of people from all over the world are more easily told and I am free to ask followup questions. No limit talk generally seems to be about the game and outs and strategies or no talk at all from folks who don't want to give away anything. Plaza used to have a great limit game. I miss it. So if the machines are only no limit, I'll play there less than if they sometimes have a limit game.
     
  14. zolar31

    zolar31 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    128
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    Based on my experience from Mohegan Sun (before the real poker room opened for the 2nd time).

    Pros:
    No dealer errors, No tipping, cheaper rake, faster more hands.

    Cons:
    no one monitoring game. People talking about the hand, during the hand. Players talking in a foreign language, etc.

    MS usually had 4 - 6 game going. So it was difficult for 1 supervisor to watch all the games; this is probably not an issue at the Plaza, if they only have 2 games going.
     
  15. La$Vega$

    La$Vega$ Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    Messages:
    380
    Location:
    CA-FL-NJ-NC-SC-IL
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    "I think for this concept to be successful, they should turn it into an upright slot machine. Walk up, throw your hundred in the money slot, and jump in to a networked, online game... play against other players scattered across multiple casinos all sitting at their own slot machine terminal. When you're done, cash out like you would any slot machine, and walk away."

    What a concept! I'd actually do that here and there. All networked together.
    Just jump on a linked game and play whatever you wanted at any time.
    You could have kiosks all over, in the mall, gas station, bars, supermarkets....
    This might catch on or not?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  16. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    That might work for some, but then it would be anonymous and more like a home computer poker game. I do think many of us play for the interaction of players similar to what happens sometimes at a tavern around the bar.
    I would not play the isolated casino game because it lacks that. I sometimes want that seclusion, but then I just play advantaged VP. It is quicker and every hand is my hand.

    Plenty of critics say the current table electronic game lacks people interaction also. I never understand that criticism. I think sometimes they might never have played the electronic game. They must need the dealer interaction as that is the only human missing, replaced with electronics.

    All the others are alive and bantering, joking, laughing and sometimes telling stories, unless of course table selection happens to pick only the zombie players, poker faced forever in their death masks of depressed solemnity with or without head phones, hoodies, and dark glasses. But then, I don't play at those tables long. I can go to funerals if I want interaction with the embalmed.

    Internet poker did not satisfy me. I hated the little chat boxes as the only way to communicate. I hated the icons as the best that could be offered in the way of interesting faces.
    I liked the Excalibur game. I interacted. Part of the time we watched some sweet gal dancing around a pole and that was fine also.
    I'll have to try the Plaza game next trip and see how that feels.
     
  17. sm2420

    sm2420 Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    76
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    Hi Dewey,
    I was at the Plaza in September when they were just setting things up.
    I spoke with the promoter, and he seemed very enthusiastic about it all,
    my concern was that there was no one there playing, he said that it was new and therefore no players yet...

    Fast forward to March 25- April 1 when I was staying at the GN, I must have checked in on the Plaza poker at least 4 times and at prime evening hours (because I couldn't get a spot at the limit table @ GN ) I'm sorry to report there was never anyone playing :cry:
    Too bad because I would have given it a try. And I agree with you, its nothing like internet poker, you're sitting at a table with others, joking telling stories...

    And as for the suggestion by others of an upright stand alone machine "like slots" to play poker with others from other casinos, I can do that in the comfort of my home, its called online internet poker ... :Þ
     
  18. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    60
    The are ghastly

    They are almost all you find on cruise line casinos now. We have played them on a number of cruises on several lines (captive audience...)

    What we have found is that they seem "streaky"--a certain seat will be particularly hot each evening. A guy who programs computers said this is because there isn't enough memory to truly program it random (I have NO idea if this is true or not) But after a half a dozen cruises playing these damn machines DH & I both notice it. Also, it goes MUCH faster than a live game since you eliminate human dealer error/speed.

    I would NEVER choose to play one of these games if live poker was available. This is what Excalibur discovered...
     
  19. PopMegaphone

    PopMegaphone VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,282
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    I've a developer and the memory thing doesn't sound right to me.

    I suspect these machines feel streaky because you can play many more hands an hour. Poker's variance hits you quicker.
     
  20. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    60
    By streaky I mean

    One seat seems to be "hot" on any given night. I have very rarely seen this in live poker. Irregardless of how many hands played, each night one seat won more hands (we even began keeping track)--not that they were just getting good cards, but they consistently sucked out. The reason we call it streaky is that sometimes we felt one of us was in the hot seat--we didn't change our play, so it wasn't just some donkey. We have noticed this on every Poker Pro table that we have played a few hours on!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.