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Plaza guts their Video Poker

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by Oxygenator, Jul 18, 2013.

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  1. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    I see now on VPfree that the list has been Verified. No more games higher than 99%. I used to like playing the 9/6 DDB on occasion for a change of pace, and this is where DW hit her first royal last year.

    Even over at the sad Vegas Club, many good machines appear gone. I know Vpfree is quite inaccurate usually, but this seems legit.

    Other than hitting up Pop up Pizza for a drunken late night snack, and maybe play some slots that aren't found anywhere else DT, we have no real reason to come here. More of my bankroll for other places DT.
     
  2. zlanga

    zlanga Low-Roller

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    Interesting how they think that's a smart business decision, when every other place offers fair games downtown...
     
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  3. meyers67

    meyers67 High-Roller

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    Their players club offers a 100% bonus on royals. So they still have good VP.
     
  4. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    Only to the highest tier levels. And they no longer have any denoms higher than $1. And reports say many royal payouts are only 2500 credits.
     
  5. zlanga

    zlanga Low-Roller

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    They started that 2500 crap years ago. I sat down at one of the machines listed on VPFree for 9/6 jacks or better, playing dollars, and about 5 minutes in I noticed that stupid 2500 payout. Couldn't cash out fast enough.
     
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  6. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Pretty much typical plaza, can't do anything right. They're run by accountants who actually think that if you change the rules(payouts), the take will increase by by that % multiplied by the total coin in. It never occurs to them that people aren't stupid and will simply stop playing there. Just sad.
     
  7. RIRugrat

    RIRugrat Low-Roller

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    Interesting. I did their $100 rebate/promo in June and they had 9/6 DDB at the $0.25 level right near the Players Club. Took advantage of the good paytables and came out ahead.

    Disappointing that they gutted they VP (lots of near full play machines on the floor). I'm booked here for several nights in September but I'll likely wait for the Four Queens mailer to get free nights there instead.

    Too bad, I wanted to stay at the Plaza.

    Chris
     
  8. gerry53

    gerry53 VIP Whale

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    I would stay at plaza regardless of gambling there.
    Why not get a nice new room if price is right and just take a few steps to gamble elsewhere?
    That could be inconvenient on the strip but on fremont??
     
  9. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Actually what is sad is that people won't stop playing there. That is my experience. Orleans went from 10/7 DB to 9/6 DB and people still play there and they play those DB machines although right next to them might be 9/6 DDB. I know folks who easily went to the 8/5 Bonus that replaces the DB at the bars because they like to play at the bar. That was a huge downgrade in percentage payback.

    I see the players playing at the Long Bar at the D.

    That is also why no new opening casino ever advertises full pay VP as a come on. Not in Vegas. Not anywhere that I know of. And why just as the El Cortez was advertising their "looser slots" (whatever that means) they were pulling most of their full pay VP machines.

    There might be a few people here on this thread who stop playing when the VP is gutted, or the VP Free readers might stop, but why should the casino worry if their seats can be taken by other folks who don't/can't do the math or just don't care? Why would a casino want advantage players who package good pay tables with freeplay or other deals and end up with an advantage over them?

    If pay tables are so important where are the tourists flocking out to the full pay machines at the Eastside Cannery with the best quarter JOB in Vegas? And right next door is full pay Deuces Wild at Sam's Town.

    If these casinos lose business and money, it won't be due to poor VP pay tables. They have done the marketing math on that one and they know that they can get away with raking off a higher percentage.
     
  10. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    I don't remember the year, but one time MSS changed their VP tables on JOB at the bar, to 8-5 iirc. Probably more than ~8-9 years ago.

    Many locals play the 9/6 JOB and the bar turned into a ghost town and nobody was playing. They relented and went back to 9/6 because business dropped off so badly.
     
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  11. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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  12. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    You have a point Dewey, a very good point, but if you have been in the Plaza the last few years you will see that a whole lot of people are avoiding it...why...I'm not sure, but there aint no one in there. For myself I walk through, wanting to play, but I dont play, because there is no reason to play in an empty casino with no vibe and no game, when right next door is a completely different animal. I dont honestly know what they need to do to turn it around, but the path they're on isnt it, look at the gold spike, vastly improved over the dump that they were, yet no one played there, they had no games, no slots, no action, and it took what, 4 years and they went under. The plaza is now on maybe year 3, and it's not getting better, it's getting worse, but I know one thing for certain, cutting their payouts is not going to work.
     
  13. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    I don't go to the Plaza much, just perhaps for a matchplay or some freeplay that seems to come periodically. So I don't have your personal experience to judge from.
    I did hear the rooms are pretty nice.
    We'll see what happens as the economy improves and as more folks focus on downtown rather than the strip to avoid room costs and high resort fees. Many visitors don't need full pay tables. They are content if the money they came to lose just goes a little farther and they get some free stuff.

    I generally stay at the Four Queens because they comp three nights over the weekend for advantage 10/7 play at the best Double Bonus in the world. They also tack on generous freeplay and cashback.
    I'd call that advantage play if I thought I did not make enough mistakes to ruin any real advantage. However, even if we don't play perfectly, full tables make a huge difference in our paybacks.
    Rather than argue in small percentage points of overall game paybacks that don't seem to compute with most players, I often show friends the difference by sitting with them and keeping track of the full houses and flushes (say on an 8-5 JOB) that they actually hit and adding up what they lost by being short paid. It eliminates the "luck" argument. Losing sessions lose more; winning sessions win less.
    Trying to convince friends and relatives that paytable math makes a difference has convinced me that very few gamblers know anything about pay tables and only some of those can be made to care.
    At the Four Queens I also like my very low bankroll play on the nickel single zero roulette which still gives points for play. It is a great mindless entertaining way to play after real gambling money is gone.
    I piggy back those free 4 Queens nights with nights at the D where the progressive 8/5 at the Vue is not a bad play at times and a little play gets me two for one room rates, about $15 a night, less if the coupons for breakfast and matchplay that come with room bookings are figured in the formula.
    And they do have that Sigma Derby for fun as well as an ancient coin drop full pay Deuces in nickels.
    American Casino guide coupons for El Cortez round out any extra nights. And I'm getting to like Sam's Town if I can get the right deal there.
    They have some fine video poker there, including full pay Deuces in nickles.... (well really in dimes as ten is the max bet.) They also have it in quarters. East Side Cannery has a whole fairly new bank of full pay VP, but I don't know how long it will be there because I always see it empty.
    I seeded them a bit last trip, but I've rarely gotten more than one free night there. I thought the Webpass promotion might give me a freebie, but they scaled back all the real benefits of that program so that anything beyond getting a free hat or buffet or drink is pretty useless.
    Stations not long ago was advertising more 100% VP payback machines than other casinos, but I guess that campaign did not earn them customers or money because they are rolling those pay tables back. Just as CET did not get more customers with "no resort fee" marketing.
    Then last trip a Four Queens host helped me figure out how to take advantage of low sale rates there to extend my booking without spoiling my daily gambling score. I'm thinking in future trips of making the reduction of check in check out more the priority than simply room cost, just for the comfort of it and patching fewer places together. I'm just too old to chase those free nights at the Orleans with my 80 pound bag of luggage.
    Although it will depend on what the D does with the Vue bar. They are going to remodel it somehow (sports bar or upscale glitz bar) and that will most likely mean installing new VP similar to what they seem to do well with at the Long Bar. Then I can't play there.

    I say all that because, although my choices in bookings are generally VP pay table driven, I think it would be hard for the Plaza to compete with the full pay at the Four Queens and (for folks with larger bankrolls) at MSS or California.
    I suspect they are targeting customers who do not look at VP pay tables. They may be failing to attract those as well.
    We'll have to see what the Downtown Grand does and then what a renovated Las Vegas Club does. And if the economy keeps improving, what will Binions do?
    I still read of people who love playing at Binions; however, while owned by the same owner as the Four Queens, the VP tables there are terrible. I doubt they would open rooms again and advertise them based on upwardly revised VP pay tables. New places generally feature glitz not gambling as the draw.

    I guess I might like the Plaza pool, but otherwise the basic room rates have been deal breakers in comparison with my other downtown deals, and the resort fee adds 66% to my average cost for rooms over a trip of 25 nights.

    The Plaza used to attract me when it was a frugal choice and had an inside laundry and TCM on the television. It does seem to please folks on room quality. Sometimes that drives bookings.

    The new bus schedule has me thinking about taking a few days to play at Fiesta Henderson, just a 36 minute bus ride from downtown now on the newly routed HDX. I used to like that place 20 years ago and they still seem to have quite an inventory of full pay machines, even in dimes, my favorite level of play.
    http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/fiesta-henderson-hotel-casino
    They have a small resort fee, but generally Station Casinos don't charge it on comped rooms, so if I seeded the place one trip, I might get offers that would be really free.

    The last time I stayed there no resort fees had yet been imagined, and my room nights were $9 a night. I'd like to see those days come back again, but I suppose they never will.

    Sadly, they no longer serve Feel Good Soup. If they did the decision would be easy.
     
  14. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Unfortunately that's the exception not the rule. At the Beau they got rid of single 0 roulette and even the hl bj is h17 but they still pack the house. So no amount of talking to them will ever get them to change. They know it's increasing their bottom line so they have absolutely no reason to go back no matter if a few people complain.
     
  15. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    it kind of sad, seems that the Plaza is doing everything they can to chase away the gamblers. as someone mentioned, the "vibe" just isn't there at the Plaza.

    You can almost tell that management at the plaza hasn't a clue on how to run a hotel casino and are more looking at their bottom line in the short term (making a quick buck) rather than bringing in the long term gamblers. So sad.

    I will stay at the plaza but gamble elsewhere. Too bad as that is basically what is happening to most who stay there. The plaza should work on customer service, having better paytables and stop trying to be the strip with glitz. People will stay and gamble if there are good pay tables, fun staff and feel comfortable in the casino. many dealers seem mechanical and aren't very friendly and the casino seems "cold" and unfriendly.

    Another thing to note, previously (years ago) I would see people who take the buses (bus station next door) playing at the Plaza, usually waiting for the next bus or trying to kill time before busing home. True that this crowd looks a little seedy and look like the lower level of gamblers. Nowadays I don't see many of these people playing at the Plaza. Almost seems like the Plaza doesn't want these type of people playing anymore, looks like they want more the "upper crust" people IMHO. A big mistake as any money coming in should be welcomed, the dealers should welcome any gambler. nowadays it seems like they are going through the motions and rather just stand with arms folded. the plaza really needs to have things to draw in the customers instead of taking away the better machines and chasing away the gamblers.
     
  16. keno60

    keno60 VIP Whale

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    Yes, I was hoping to stay there in Oct. and noticed in June they had went to 9/5 JOB .25 level. What is it now?
     
  17. keno60

    keno60 VIP Whale

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    Thanks good information, as usual. I stayed for 9 nights June 23-July 2 for no Charge. I tried to seed the Plaza by playing the Vegas Club? I had read that look at both places? I will look into Fiesta Henderson in the future thanks to you. Have a great one.:wave:
     
  18. ernestoc33

    ernestoc33 Low-Roller

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    Now I have even less reasons to spend money with them.




    They are just going to lose more business to Boyd...
     
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