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Playing Blackjack on machines.

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by Electroguy563, Feb 7, 2015.

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  1. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I want to start playing Blackjack. When I first started going to Vegas I played at the tables and with my wife and in-laws we were able to mostly play by ourselves. We overlooked our rookie mistakes and had a great time.

    A couple of instances we played with more knowledgeable players and for the most part they were understanding and nice, since we announced our rookie status every time a stranger sat down. Sometimes a comment or two about our ignorance would come out and it somehow makes me nervous and apprehensive. Then it's not enjoyable anymore.

    Since I love Vegas more than my wife does, she lets me go solo once or twice a year besides our annual trip together. I'm thinking I want to play Blackjack but maybe play at the machines. I'm not that good and I know I'll make stupid mistakes that will annoy the wrong player if I played at the tables. If I play at the machines I can take my time and think out my moves at a relaxed and slow pace.

    My question: Does the machines pay even money for Blackjacks? Or do they pay 6:5? Would the machine pay 3:2 at a certain higher denominations? I don't want to play on the community type machines, just the multi-play machines.

    Any other information about this type of machines are greatly appreciated.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  2. BCMike

    BCMike VIP Whale

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    Maybe not helpful but spend the $2 in the gift shop at the hotel and get a basic strategy card for either case. Might help take away some of the 'incorrect plays' and nervousness. You can use them at both places. Makes sense as well to play basic strategy on the machines as well. I haven't played on the machines in a while but I think the were 3/2 years ago when I did. That was before 6/5 though...
     
  3. Piggylane

    Piggylane Well-Known Member

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    There are several iPad apps and many online programs to help you learn as well. Also go to www.wizardofodds.com and look at his page on BJ. He has basic and advanced strategies. It's not one game as there are many variations. You can play for free and learn from your mistakes there too. Very helpful tune up before a trip!
     
  4. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    All the machines I've seen that are single player will pay even money on blackjack (they try to be sneaky by saying 2 for 1). This includes those standard Game King machines as well as the multi-play machines where you play all 7 or however many hands.

    The machines I've seen with the virtual dealer where multiple people can play pay 3:2 on BJ and actually had pretty good rules overall. Plus they took bets as low as $5. These are community style games but I doubt you'll deal with many instances of anyone caring about your play on those machines.
     
  5. GROWLR

    GROWLR Tourist

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    Never played BJ on any machine before, but I believe the consensus from the BJ community would be that you should never play BJ at anything other than a 3:2 game. That being said it's possible that the machine could offer such great rules, and number of decks, and penetration into the deck, etc. as to make the game worthwhile to play, but I doubt it.

    Also, players at a live game who get upset at another player's "mistakes" are just stupid. Good BJ players know that players decisions at the table are as random as the cards coming out of the shoe (or the DD) and have no effect on the game at all. I'm not disputing that players do get upset at how others play just saying that other's play at the table just doesn't matter. Try to find a table that seems to have a friendly group of people at it, or find an empty table and play the dealer heads-up, they won't care how long you take to make your decisions.
     
  6. DoubleUp

    DoubleUp Low-Roller

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    I have never seen a VP machine in vegas that paid anything other then 1:1 on a blackjack. Further, the rules are usually terrible, for example many have NO splits, and if they allow double down it is on 10-11 only. So if you want to practices, use your ipad :)
     
  7. Mrs. K.

    Mrs. K. Low-Roller

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    I played at the machines for the reasons you stated. If I feel like hitting on 17 or splitting 10s I I don't want to be ridiculed by the other players. Do I know it's not proper strategy? Yes! Do I care? No!
     
  8. # 2

    # 2 Tourist

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    Playing BJ at a machine is easy enough but I always feel cheated when the dealer hits that 5 card 21; it feels rigged.
     
  9. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Interaction with the dealer and other players is one of the joys of playing blackjack. Please don't permit a lack of confidence to cheat you out of it.

    Get the training. It doesn't take long. Learn basic strategy COLD. Practically any BJ book out there, from the original "Beat the Dealer" to whatever just came out last week, will give you the rules for basic strategy and will tell you how to recognize a fair game. There is proprietary software which drills you on your decisions, or you can practice online with the Wizard as was already suggested.

    Soon, you will know exactly what plays to make. All the same, take a GOOD strategy card with you the first few times you play live, and don't be afraid to consult it. If it slows the game down just a little, so be it. You're doing the other players a favor because they'll lose more slowly. If you feel pressured or self-conscious about looking at a cheat sheet, try to sit where you'll be the last to play so that you have time to check your cheat sheet before it's your turn.
     
  10. TOWNSVILLE

    TOWNSVILLE Low-Roller

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    Electroguy563 you should learn basic strategy as suggested by bardolater. Once known you can sit back and watch the more knowledgeable players play.l am sure you will be surprised at the number of mistakes these players make. lt should then become more enjoyable for you as you now know better.Sometimes the ones with all the comments just think they know it all.
     
  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Give the machine a try but feel you will not like it as BJ is a social game and you sort of lose that aspect. (Assuming you are talking about the single player game.)

    But if you are talking about the newer machines with the virtual dealer then possibly the other people playing that game feel the same as you about these wanna be professional BJ players and don't want to deal with them. As a result, you may be better off.

    If you find yourself yearning for more social aspect then find an empty table or you scout the tables.
    Usually the table games are lumped together.
    Make a few trips walking around the tables and pay close attention to the people at the table.
    Rowdy table and plenty of alcohol....jump in and grab a seat as these people are in Vegas to have fun.

    Or even watch a few hands and listen to the banter.
    You can usually pick out the BJ a-hole and know to stay away.
     
  12. Lucky55

    Lucky55 Low-Roller

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    Agree with BCmike buy a basic strategy card. the bj machines I've seen pay even money BJ
     
  13. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    Not to highjack this thread...and I know there has been discussion previously, but explain this to me please (please note that I don't care what players do at a BJ table...I'm there for fun).

    How does it now change the outcome whether a player chooses to stand or hit when basic strategy suggests otherwise?

    In a game of of BJ just because you don't know what the next card is, that doesn't actually change what that card is. If the next card is a 5, it's a 5 whether or not you know that. So before that card is dealt...it's a 5, and after that card is dealt...it's still a 5.

    That means that there is one less 5 in the deck.

    Yes the card could have been 7 or a 10 or an A...but it has to be something. Just because it could have been anything (in which case basic strategy would be useless) it has to be something (which is the point of basic strategy). and once that 5 is played...there is one less 5 available.


    Help me understand this, thanks
     
  14. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

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    Some casino bars will have video blackjack with some of them starting out as low as a quarter. I'll sometimes play that at the bad instead of video poker and have a few drinks.

    You do have to watch yourself though. The max bet button can really bite you in the ass if you didn't mean to press it. Some $1 machines the max might be $20 or up to $100.
     
  15. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    A lot of people are not too bright, drunk, or just plain irrational at a black jack table. They see a player hit on 14 and get a 10, when the dealer is showing a 6 as taking the bust card, when the dealer flips over a 10, then draws a 3 to make 19. After the player busts there is still the same odds of a dealer busting or not. And it could have just the same been player gets the 3 to make 17 and dealer gets the 10 and busts. People just jump to conclusions quickly. I have probably seen as many bad hits save the table as bust the table.
     
  16. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    Despite what superstitious gamblers think, the outcome of your hand over a long period of time has absolutely nothing to do with what the other players at the table do. You will often hear "you took/didnt take the dealers bust card" but mathematically speaking this means absolutely nothing. YOUR decisions of YOUR hands alone will effect your overall loss/win. Period.

    About blackjack machines, the Venetian has 3-4 $5 BJ tables with a virtual dealer and actually deals a real "shoe" of 4 decks where each card is discarded until the shuffle. The game is very liberal with good rules. eg BJ pays 3:2, double after split, double any two etc... Their are 5 or 6 seats if memory serves me correct so you can often commiserate with the others at the table/machine for fun, and get free drinks. You also have the ability to bet on other players hands. I have found the machine across from the big 6 wheel is stand soft 17, the the other machines are hit soft 17. You want to play the stand 17 one, as the odds are better mathematically speaking.
     
  17. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Whether another player hits or stands DOES change the outcome, blackjack is one of the few (if only?) casino games where that is the case. At the same time you can't say whether that change will be good or bad for you, which is why getting upset is pointless.

    But BJ is also one of the few games where there is a right and wrong decision for each hand, statistically speaking. So if someone makes a wrong decision AND it hurts the table then someone may blame you. Its dumb but its not completely irrational either. However if you make the right decision and someone blames you then they are just extra stupid.
     
  18. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Well said.

    The biggest problem with a handful of BJ players is the following. If a player plays incorrectly and it causes a player who thinks they understand math (but really doesn't) to lose, then they may become an irritable asshole about losing the hand. But no way in hell will that same player thank the person making the wrong decision when it causes them to win. What's even worse, you sometimes get this feedback even when making the correct decision mathematically!

    When "new" or "bad" players only get negative feedback, who can blame them for not wanting to even play.
     
  19. GROWLR

    GROWLR Tourist

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    Others above have said it as well or better than I can. But I'll refer you to a section on the wizardofodds.com site where he proves mathematically that even reckless/wild play from another player at the table doesn't effect your results if you are playing perfect basic strategy:

    http://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/blackjack/

    Every time I go to the Blackjack games there is a grumpy simple individual, who wants to stone some poor soul for "messing up the shoe.” Is there any truth to this?

    JIM FROM LAS VEGAS

    In ten years of running this site I steadfastly denied the myth that bad players cause other players to lose in blackjack. However, you are the lucky 1000th person to ask, so I took the trouble to prove it by random simulation. The rules I put in are the standard liberal Vegas Strip rules as follows.

    6 decks
    Dealer stands on soft 17
    Double on any first two cards allowed
    Double after split allowed
    Late surrender allowed
    Player may re-split to four hands, including aces
    Cut card used

    First, I had both players follow correct total-dependent basic strategy. Over almost 1.6 billion rounds, the loss of the first player to act was 0.289%, and the second player to act of 0.288%.

    Second, I had the first player follow the same correct strategy, and the second player follow the same correct strategy except:

    Always hit 12 to 16
    Always double 9 to 11
    Split any pair
    Never surrender
    Never soft double

    In a simulation of 1.05 billion hands the loss of the first player was 0.282%, and the second player was 11.260%. So the house edge of the basic strategy playing first player was almost the same, regardless of whether the second player played correctly or wildly incorrectly. I hope this puts and end the third baseman myth, but I doubt it. As I have said many times, the more ridiculous a belief is, the more tenaciously it tends to be held.
     
  20. VegasSchemer

    VegasSchemer Low-Roller

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    I feel like some of us are giving advice that ignores what you want but I agree with much of what has been said. Screw those people who are telling you how to play. That dumb hit you took is the reason they get a good hand down the road. Plus, these know it alls make mistakes on basic strategy fairly often. You'll either decide "to hell with you" or take the bad rules at the video machines if you only want single player.
     
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