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Table Games Pit Critters and their hilarious antics....

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Electroguy563, May 3, 2014.

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  1. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Pit critters and Heaters. They don't go together. Like oil and water. Ever notice what they do when there is a shooter on a heater? Sometimes it seems that they are more superstitious than us craps players.:poke:

    I went on several heaters during my recent trip Downtown. If I'm the shooter on a heater I press my bets occasionally but concentrate on my shooting and don't press as aggressively as if it was another shooter. Just so happens that on a particular hot shoot of mine there were some heavy hitting players on the table and they were pressing and winning substantial amounts off my roll.

    This is what the pit critters did during my roll:

    Congregate (3 or 4 of them with hands on their chins, whispering, pointing, and gesturing.)

    Stall during a buy-in. Now I've been playing craps long enough to know that if the table is NOT hot, they have no problem giving the players their chips while the game is moving. But go on a heater and even a measly 100 dollar buy-in becomes a big deal where the stickman won't pass the dice to you, despite the groans and complaints of the players. The boxman will take his time verifying the chip stack before giving the o.k. to transfer to the player. Not sure if there is a way they communicate to the stickman as to hold up the dice but if I was the stickman, I'd do as I'm told if I want to hold on to my job, lol!

    Scold you if you don't hit the back wall. I very rarely fail to hit the back wall but I've seen the box person admonish shooters just because 1 die failed to hit the back wall. And it wasn't happening every time. Talk about getting the shooter messed up on his rhythm. Again, if the table was cold, they wouldn't give a rats ass......

    But this one I've never seen before. This was at MSS and I was on a heater. The pit critter came around the table and announced " Who is the shooter?" The game stopped. I turned around, looked at him, and jokingly asked " Is this a trick question?" He knew I was the shooter. He was watching me as I shot for the last half hour. He asked, "Mind if this lady plays next to you?" Keep in mind that the table was full. If she were to step in we would've been cheek to cheek. I looked the pit critter in the eye and said "Doesn't matter to me" and smiled, trying to show him he's not rattling me one bit. All this time the table players were grumbling and making their disapproval of this tactic known. The lady was terrified and whispered to me that she was going to wait after my roll before stepping in. I told her no worries and continued to roll with confidence, much to the chagrin of the now obviously worried pit critters.

    Another stalling technique they use is call for a chip re-fill. A guard shows up out of nowhere, slips need to be signed and verified, and all the while the stickman will not give up the dice. I've seen chip re-fills done on cold tables and they managed to keep the game going, believe me.

    Any of you out there seen any other amusing antics that the pit critters employ to stall or break your rhythm when you or someone is on a heater?

    It's amazing how they sweat the money when the math is clearly on their side, but I can imagine how these rare heater events can clearly put a dent in their profits.....:thumbsup:
     
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  2. SW

    SW Well-Known Member

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    I've seen this one a few times at the blackjack table. One case was very amusing as the dealer rolled his eyes when the guard showed up since he had no idea where he was going to put all these new chips.
     
  3. GilGunderson

    GilGunderson Low-Roller

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    Happened at MSS a couple years ago to my gf, on roulette of all games. Less heavy handed though. Pit critter personally leaned in to slowly clear empty drink glasses and ask how everyone was. GF was up about 400 at that point.

    If you want to see some ridiculous pit critter overreactions, read this from my TR from march 2012 about the pit boss at NYNY. GF was cleaning up at roulette, NYNY was acting like a sweat the money joint if i ever saw one.

    ".....We trekked across to NYNY, and E dropped 140 on a roulette table. She wasn’t done. Still up about 450, E walked to another table area. E said the croupier was rolling all her numbers and she was gonna win. Well she was right. For about 45 minutes or hour, she was raking the chips.

    This is where things got silly. The pit boss conferred with the lady punching info in the computer, and then had the screen on our table shut off. E laughed and said she had him running scared. The pit boss told the dealer not to give E the chips the way she wanted (2 $25 or $100 chips over the singles on a winning roll, depending on the bet). Then they switched balls, E still won. Then they brought in another dealer who looked like he was called from home, pretended not to know how to pay out as to slow down the game and E’s hot streak. Even after all that, E still hit again the next roll. She played the 40 in singles out the next roll and it didn’t hit. That was ok, She made $750 at NYNY. She waved and smiled at the pit boss, who had a begrudging grin on his face....."
     
  4. tipdrill

    tipdrill Low-Roller

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    I have experienced the following on a craps table during a heater:

    Chip Re-fill. To me this is the most annoying and most desperate as it takes the longest.

    This is pretty bad, I had one pit boss tell me to aim over the "come" when i shoot even though i was hitting the back wall everytime.
     
  5. 4Eyes

    4Eyes Low-Roller

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    Electroguy,

    If the casino indeed tried to stall the game, do you think it made a difference in the mathematics of the game?
     
  6. cyclonebell

    cyclonebell Guest

    This. Why does it matter? Your perceived "hot streak" is just a run of positive variance, I don't understand what actions that happen between rolls have to do with anything. Unless you are somehow advantage throwing the die, nothing is changed.
     
  7. WHITEJACKET73

    WHITEJACKET73 Low-Roller

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    Two episodes come to mind:

    1st episode: Playing craps at Casino Royale (of all places); guy goes on an incredible heater at the craps table, 3 suits watching the game, stopped twice for the "chip refill", count and double count. Guy finally 7's out, pit critter immediately picks up the dice. I asked him what he was going to do with the dice; his reply, " Burn them!" Player at the table made at least 10 grand and his buddy over 6. Never saw a shooter hit so many hardways.

    2nd episode: Shooting dice at Binions; setting the dice within a few seconds and they land just in front of the back wall, hit the wall and land dead back on the table. After my 4th point the pit boss starts carping about both dice hitting the back wall (they were), then the stickman starts shoving the dice so that they roll past me and I have to lean over and stretch to pick them up. Finally, after the pit boss's warning about slowing down the game because I am dice setting and about hitting the back wall, I pick the dice up and fling them down the table. They hit the back wall with a vengance and bounce all over the table and up comes my point, nine. I look that the pit boss and say, " You like that way better?" His face got bright red. I must have hit 7 or 8 points before I 7'd out. I immediately announced that I wanted to color up. As I am picking up my chips, the pit boss asked me where I am going with all that money? "To a friendlier table", I replied. Haven't played craps at Binions since.
     
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  8. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    While I don't doubt that some pit critters might be superstitious and try to slow things down, I think most of it due to the fact that if you're on a heater yourself, you just notice all that stuff more.

    If you have the dice for 30 - 45 mins or more, a lot of regular stuff goes on that you just don't notice when everybody's just rolling 4 or 5 times before going out. Even if it's someone else on a heater, you don't really notice it.
     
  9. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I don't play craps often enough to have noticed pit-antics there, but with blackjack?
    I've lost track on how many times they've tried to cool-off a "hot table".
    One example though, and it was the most egregious I've experienced:

    I think it was at 4-queens - few years ago...vegas-buddy & I are at a $10 two deck...and killin' 'em! We're drawing 4s & 5s to our 15s & 16s...we're making 20s & 21s on our soft-doubles... dealer is routinely busting on hits to 12 & 13...our hard 17s versus dealer aces, 9s & 10s are winning or pushing.
    It was great!
    And then the antics started.
    First - dealer-change... normal, right? Yeah - except that we had three more dealer-changes over about 20 minutes! And, of course, re-shuffles every time.
    Chip-fill. Ok, so the first one was probably normal... and then we got two more in about 30 minutes. On the 3rd one, the dealer actually asked where she was supposed to put all of the new chips! (We actually helped her by buying $200 in red with our green & black so she'd have room!)
    Next-up? Time to change cards! Now this is one where you absolutely know that it's on a 'schedule'. So, when the pit brought over new cards 30 minutes after we just got new cards, I told the pit, "hey - these cards are only half an hour old!".
    Pit says, "Yeah? So what?"
    Anyway - after the second change-of-decks, we played another 2 or 3 hands and then left...and we actually got the "Hey - where you guys goin'?" from the pit. Incredible.
     
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  10. Googleboots

    Googleboots Tourist

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    Having dealt the game on the east coast for years, to most of our biggest patrons, I can say I've seen some things. Are they done to "ice" the shooter? NO.

    You see 3-4 suits flock to the table? That's because it's a good roll.
    -There's money being thrown about. Especially in a relaxed town like Vegas, the Floor Supervisors can't always follow the game 100% with the escalated action. You have to(Unfortunately) assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent in a casino. You don't know if the dealer's cousin is on the game and is getting overpaid, or the dealer just plain sucks and can't deal with the higher action.
    -They have to make sure they're tracking WHO'S winning and HOW MUCH they win. Where I work, the box person has to notify the pit boss when they are using purple($500 chips) and above. I imagine it's a lower denomination at other places(on a cruise it was like I won the lottery to get green $25 chips from the bank)
    -The box person is supposed to check the dice after a long roll. They're also supposed to check them every time they sit down.(whether it's the breaker or the main person coming back from break) The dice may seem durable but you can EASILY "burn" or rub a corner off the dice if you drag them on the layout. Guilty until proven innocent, remember?
    -People have stated, but it bears repeating: the game's advantage is built in. No one has to cheat. There will be GREAT rolls, and just the same, you will have games where no one can throw the dice more than three times before an Out 7. It's AAAAAALLLLLL random. Best and worst part about the game.
    -As for stalls during Fills and Buy-ins, this can be explained away different ways. I don't know your specific experiences, but the general rule is that they will wait for a "decision" roll (Winner/loser) to bring up a Fill. The security guy isn't going anywhere. He's in it for his 8 hours and just needs to get his break when due. He's getting paid the same if he's standing like a dummy by the game with a Fill, or standing like a dummy by the pool entrance. Some box people are dicks. There's no way around it. They will bring it up because it's "Taking too long" and they're wrong. Bottom line- they don't get paid any less or more for icing your roll, they have to show up and get their salary. That's it. Most want you to have fun, because if you have fun, they can have fun. Some don't care and they want to do what they want "because it's my job". I guess they need that assertion of authority over us MEEEASELY PEON GAMBLERS. That's their game, and you can't get around it :thumbsdown:

    As for the stalled Buy ins- This can be an A-hole player who wants to blurt out their $39 in action in a way that no one can understand, or it can be the guy we just mentioned above, who needs to be "in control(of a random game)"
    -My final topic to touch on(and this is the most common): Is there a hammer on the game? A player who works the dealers to death with pointless bets and presses. Press me up, take me down, move it here, put it there, take me down. Are the dealers making money? Almost all Suits started as dealers. They know that if the dealers are making no money on a crazy heater, they're going to be upset about it- ESPECIALLY with a hammer on the game. The table may be roaring with cheers and applause, and they dealers may be joining in, but they're trying to make money too. If the box person knows their crew is "working for free(making no money)" many times they WILL NOT CARE what the player wants. Miss the wall ONE TIME; the dice stop and you get a warning. I know you might not be part of the problem, and I can't speak for employees everywhere, but I know my people. If the game is on a heater but has bad players, all bets are off. That $100 buy in will take 3x longer. That fill WILL come up in the middle of the roll. Just remember to keep your dealers happy.

    I honestly didn't mean to write a novel but I'm not a superstitious person and I don't like it when people blame those trying to do their job on the "mystery" of random dice outcomes. The guy we dealt to tonight REFUSES the use of $500 chips on the game. Only $100 and $1000 chips for his bets. He is a grown man of about 75 years. He has thrown fits about $500 chips. Multiple times.

    Please don't take this as an attack, but as an insider's view of the situation. I am happy to answer any questions about dealing any game EXCEPT Roulette and Pai Gow.

    CM
     
  11. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    coolers

    Back in the day, in Freeport (Princess Casino), the pit critters would arrange for something to happen during a monster roll....a new player would try to squeeze in, next to the shooter of course....or a new player would make a late bet on the field or come area, where the dice are going to land, of course.... the dealers would short change a payout or not pay someone....an argument would ensue....:grrr:
     
  12. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I don't think so. So, why is management doing it?
     
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  13. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Not sure its the casino doings.
    There always appears to be those Crap players who wait to get on that party bus when there is a heater going on.
    No matter how full is the table or if the shooter is about to toss the dice they will squeeze in to get their bets down.

    Maybe I am not observant but I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary other than the above types attempting to join the party....late.
     
  14. VegasTravelerBuddy

    VegasTravelerBuddy Tourist

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    They do these things to make sure there's no cheating going on. They might not be able to find out how you're cheating so they try everything. Change dealer, change dice, change decks. Maybe you're cheating, maybe you're not. But at least they're trying to counter your cheating if in fact you are.
     
  15. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    I've seen all of these antics over the years, but my favorite personal experience happened at the old Silver Slipper many years ago.

    (They had the "Boy-lesque" show there for free, but you had to pick up your tickets in advance, so they got two shots at your money.)

    I was shooting at their $1.00 crap table and went on a real tear. I think it was the first time I ever shot long enough to press my line bet up to $35.00. After about fifteen or twenty minutes, the box man, who had been scowling and cursing the whole time, reached under the table, pulled out a large bottle of Rolaids and started chewing one after the other!!

    Thirty years later, it's still among my favorite Vegas memories.
     
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  16. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I've seen some doozies at the Fremont.

    One time an older female shooter was on a hot roll. The Asian female pit boss started hassling the shooter, telling her that both dice have to hit the back wall or the throw wouldn't count. The shooter (since she was short) was having hard time hitting the back wall on every throw and every time she didn't hit both dice on the back wall the pit boss would bitch about it. Throughout the roll the pit boss would bitch in her foreign language, we all had an idea what she was saying and got a good laugh at her expense. When the shooter sevened out we all just cashed out and moved elsewhere.

    Another time there were 2 good shooters on the (full) table. Same Asian female pit boss was there, bitching as usual but she didn't have anything to complain about so just bitched in her foreign language. When the 2 shooters crapped out, to piss off the pit boss we all passed the dice back to the 2 shooters again where they again kept up their hot streak. Female pit boss turned red and got pissed that we all passed the dice back to the shooters. When they crapped out the pit boss yelled, "no more passing the dice or we will close the table". Someone else picked up the dice and rolled but most of us including the 2 hot shooters moved to the other table with a different pit boss and continued our game there.

    Another weird one was at the Plaza craps table. One guy was shooting so I watched the game, thinking of playing but I wanted to check out the table first. The table was cold, the guy was losing so I walked away. I was about 15 feet away from the table, waiting for a friend but still watched the table. A couple of minutes later the guy took his chips and walked away. The pit crew started commenting and pointed in the direction of the shooter (who walked out the door) and they all started laughing at the guy. One of the pit crew saw me watching them and commented and they all stopped laughing but I knew that they were making fun of the guy. After that I never played at the Plaza during my stay there, totally uncool to make fun of the players IMHO.


    The weirdest one was at the LVC about 3 (or so) years ago. One old Asian guy was shooting and was the only one on the table. They closed off half the crap table and only one person was manning the whole table. I was going to play but started watching the game and the female stickperson first. The shooter was having a hard time reaching the far end of the table so the stickman was grumbling at the shooter to hit the back end of the table. Whenever the shooter didn't hit the back end of the table the stickman would yell "no roll" and bring back the dice and tell the shooter that it won't count unless both dice hit the end of the table. On one roll the shooter sevened out but didn't hit the back end of the table. Stickman called, "7 - out" and took the shooter's bets. The shooter grumbled that the stickman didn't allow throws that didn't hit the back end but did allow it for a 7 out. Stick lady shrugged her shoulders and collected the bets. Needless to say I didn't play and moved to another casino.
     
  17. zamboni

    zamboni VIP Whale

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    Sometimes they send William H Macy in.
     
  18. alana86

    alana86 Low-Roller

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    This all sounds nerve racking lol..this is why I play slots and some roulette.
     
  19. Honu

    Honu Tourist

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    Makikiboy,
    I had the same experience at Freemont, the Asian lady with glasses and long hair pit boss was bitchin at us when we all pass the dice around to the same hot shooter. She came by, every player chanted pass, pass, pass, pass, all the way around to the hot shooter. All she did was looked disgusted.
    Honu
     
  20. Googleboots

    Googleboots Tourist

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    They must really love making $8 an hour base rate...
     
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