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Table Games Pai Gow Poker Peeking

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by AnabelleT, Apr 1, 2014.

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  1. AnabelleT

    AnabelleT Tourist

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    It's happened a couple of times, and a lot the last time I played Pai Gow Poker!

    The man next to me was looking at every hand I played while I was setting it. I didn't like him looking so I moved back into my chair, but the croupier told me to keep my hands over the table (I guess he took me for a cheater lol :wink2:) I was later told that it's not allowed to look at other player's hands because it can give you an edge.

    How can you get an edge looking at other player's hands in Pai Gow Poker? Most of the time you don't have that much choice when setting your hand, so how can looking at someone else's hand help you?

    And why didn't the croupier say something if this wasn't allowed? The guy next to me was being pretty obvious looking at my hand almost every play.
     
  2. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    PGP

    Casinos seem to be paranoid about players getting some type of advantage....I believe the casinos speculate that a player might deduce what cards the dealer may have, if the player "peeks" at the other player's cards....the primary interest seems to be how many Aces are in play....theoretically, if a player has 2 pairs or some type of bonus hand, "knowing" that the dealer might have one or more Aces would dictate the setting of a player's bonus hand....if you ever play PGP at Harrahs in NO, the casino does not allow looking at the cards of other players and if you speak to other players at the table, it must be in English....WTH:thumbsdown:
     
  3. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    Yes, casinos don't "officially" permit showing or discussing your hand with others. In practice, however, they often couldn't care less. I'm still relatively new at the game and have been helped more than a few times by an observant player seated next to me. For that matter, I've been helped setting my cards even more often by the dealer! Their assistance has often paid off or at least helped "educate" me. I'm not talking about meddling, just being helpful. Rules are rules – but they're often bent. :D
     
  4. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Anabelle...I would just shrug it off. If somebody looks at your cards (and you're not actively displaying them to anyone), I wouldn't worry about it.
    Now, if some other player is practically in your lap, leaning over & trying to see your cards, I'd just firmly ask him (or her) to back off a bit.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  5. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    There is only the tiniest advantage you could get in a few situations by seeing one other hand in PaiGow, so the house is seldom very paranoid about this. (With Mississippi Stud, however, that kind of information can be worth a lot.) Mainly they want to make sure you're not switching cards with someone you're sitting next to, so they often will tell you to finish setting your hand and have it down on the table before you look at another player's cards.

    They guy was doing it because it's interesting to see more cards, not to irritate you. Don't be surprised if your seatmate sometimes even suggests how to play it. This really is part of the social part of this particular game, even though it's not done all the time. I do it from time to time. If you don't like it. just keep your cards tilted away from the nosy neighbor. But yes, you must keep the cards over the green felt; this is a big rule with all games where you hold your cards.
     
  6. AnabelleT

    AnabelleT Tourist

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    Thank you for responding!

    At the Pai Gow Poker tables here there are frequently players speaking in Chinese and no one seems to mind. I don't mind, and the casino doesn't seem to mind because I've never heard them say anything about it.

    I see about knowing in some instances how to better set your hand if you can see certain cards in another player's hand while you're setting yours. In this game only one deck is used, so I guess it can help to a degree.

    I guess I'll casually look over sometimes :wink2: In a full table, people are close to each other, and if you have to keep your hands over the table it's not hard to catch your neighbor's cards while their setting them. I never looked but I guess q auick glance won't hurt.
     
  7. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    Looking at the cards of the player next to you is not a threat to the casino....as others have mentioned, PGP is a casual/sociable game...but, if the table is full, all the hands are in play, lots of black chips in play, and the players are talking among themselves in a foreign language(probably asking who has any Aces) not understood by the pit boss, then you would see/hear the casino enforce their policies about not looking at other player's cards...
     
  8. The Furry One

    The Furry One Low-Roller

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    Sometimes you can't help but get a peek at another players cards but it's rude imo to deliberately try to do so. If someone does that to me I usually angle myself and the way I hold my cards very slightly so as to obscure their view or if they are persistant I only view the minimum I need to in order to determine value and suit of each card before quickly setting my hands. As others have said the casino in general could care less as there would only be an advantage to knowing what other cards are definately not in the bankers hand once in a while.

    I unsuccessfully tried to get my wife interested in the game and had to help her set her hands 9 times out of 10 - always having set my own first and not only never touching her cards (a big no no even if you have none of your own in your hand) but not even pointing to the ones I was talking about. It's not uncommon for a newer player to ask either another player or the dealer for assistance in setting a hand that can be played various ways.

    As far as conversation goes it is primarily a social game as has been stated but the dealer/house do generally like to understand what's being said when hands are being set if there are decent sized bets out there.

    Furry
     
  9. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    In Mississippi Stud it is a large advantage to know what cards are still in play.

    I got kicked off a table at Flamingo for discussing cards in Mississippi Stud, went straight over the Margaritaville and they didnt bat an eye for talking about or showing cards...got a 4oak moments later...Instant Karma?
     
  10. airball1996

    airball1996 High-Roller

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    I think it's kind of fun when players "show off" their hands. It's cool seeing when someone has 4 of a kind, or for that matter, a ten high pai gow. Both get a reaction. ;)
     
  11. D in the D

    D in the D Low-Roller

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    I had a hand recently that fits this category AND the sharing info category. Sweated first four cards...all aces. dealer looks and asks if anyone at the table (full table) had the joker....no one did....alas, it was in the burn pile.
     
  12. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    When it was first offered, players could bank the game instead of the house. According to
    http://www.amazon.com/Optimal-Strategy-Pai-Gow-Poker/dp/0935926178

    Stanford Wong's book, the way to really have an advantage on the game was to be the bank.

    I once was the bank at Circus Circus and playing with just the worst players, but when I was the bank. they would not bet much.
    "We don't want to take your money"
    said a fine and friendly fellow who might have been a fish.

    Inside my head I was screaming, "Bet a bundle, jackass, I've watched you set hands and you don't have a clue. I'll take the chance."

    But now I guess that option is not open for players.
    Of course, if I was the bank, I would not want folks sharing what they held.
    When the house is the bank, it would seem a decent way to edge out the casino as winner, something I am always willing to do.
     
  13. ghettodan

    ghettodan Tourist

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    In my experience most people who bank will play to push with the other players at the table since banking is good to shake up a roll that the dealer is on and to also get the tie advantage away from the dealer. It has been pretty rare in all of the PGP I have played to see people who bank go aggressive trying to win money from the other players at the table.
     
  14. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Well, I'm a live poker player. I'm always playing against other players. So I would have no compunctions. Wong's book doesn't suggest soft peddling when we bank.
    As far as "shaking up a roll," one hand is as random as another. So nothing I do in the hand I bank affects what the dealer did or might do in subsequent hands. Well, at leasts that is the math. I'm not much of a superstitions player.
     
  15. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    Banking is still allowed at every strip casino I've been to. As far as peeking goes, I often take turns revealing cards with the player next to me. We make it into a game to make the game more involved, the only stipulation the house puts on me when I do this is we cannot have both hands open at the same time. One player must set their hands before the other player can touch theirs if we do this, otherwise I've never been told anything about it. Also keeping cards over the table is a rule for every casino, don't take it personally.
     
  16. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Anabelle,
    You DO realize you're not playing against the table...only the dealer, right?
    Hell, when I play PaiGow, I set my cards down all face up and sort them out...every table I've ever played, everyone likes to see everyone's hands...its a social game...
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  17. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Nice. Give me a list of those casinos that you know allow player banking. I have not played in a while and perhaps I'll start again if banking is an option.
     
  18. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Basically it's always available at any PaiGow table, at least in Vegas (and Biloxi also). It isn't 'advertised', but it's there. This is one way you can improve your odds at PaiGow, by banking whenever they let you and banking for a lot more than your regular hands. Being the winner on the ties is actually worth a lot.

    The only place I've been where it wasn't available was in Pennsylvania where the idea of player banked games didn't get past the legislature.
     
  19. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    WWWade is correct, I've never seen a casino not offer it. I pretty much only gamble at Aria and Mandalay Bay these days, but I've never seen anyone denied the option to bank when they requested it (I just usually can't afford to cover all the bets on the table at these places, so I don't do it personally). The only thing that changes in Vegas is how often they let you bank. Some places will let you bank every other hand, others will make you wait until it's "your turn" by only allowing banking once every other player (or sometimes position) on the table has had a round where they can bank. Sometimes they will let you bank every 7 rounds, sometimes they will "zig-zag" between the players and dealers and only let you bank once every 12 or so rounds. I'm not sure how often the strip casinos let you bank as I've not seen people bank consistently.
     
  20. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Very helpful. I'll see how my bankroll looks next trip. I remember I played years back in Circus Circus where the table minimums were low and attracted more moderate players.
    Thanks for the detailed information.
     
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