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Table Games Pai Gow Poker Enthusiasts

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by travelfiend, Jun 21, 2013.

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  1. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    I love the game of Pai Gow Poker and have seen a few posts here and there concerning the game. Frequent questions arise about min/max, which casinos have which rules variations, etc.

    I am going to start a small tracking service to record this information and hoping others will add to it also. It will be a simple google form that folks can fill out and then we will all have access to the information.

    1. Would you be interested in something like this?
    2. If so, what information do you want?

    I have the following already in the form:
    Casino name
    Time of Day
    Minimum
    Maximum
    Number of tables
    Variations (EZ Pai Gow, Progessive, etc)
    Special Notes/Comments

    For me personally, I didn't bother about physical location of tables, not that big of deal to me but if you would like it included or something else included, please let me know.

    Hoping to have this up and running in the next week or so. Of course, it will be an ongoing process and am sure we will make some changes as we go along but thought it would be a nice free resource for those of us that love Pai Gow Poker.

    Let me know what you think?
     
  2. Konzul

    Konzul Tourist

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    I think it would be a nice thing to have like vpfree2. Maybe even in a sticky here.

    Min / Max (including side bets) is likely of the biggest interest. In addition Table Max Aggregate payouts and possible Jackpots and their current level are interesting.

    Personally I also like special notes like hand dealt games (dont think they exist in Vegas) or if the starting position is determined by RNG (a computer) or using dice.

    Special rules like Dragon hand, can you play 2 hands at a time and how many tables / how busy are they might also be asked.

    We could have it as simple as tracking all this in one post that we keep editing the original.

    Here is my contribution:
    Casino name: Golden Nugget
    Time of Day: 24x7 (Usually at least one table open, at peak 2 tables busy)
    Minimum: $5 - $10
    Maximum: $10.000 (I think)
    Number of tables: 3
    Variations: EZ Pai Gow with bonus bet ($1 - $25), Progessive jackpot ($1) and Dragon Hand
    Special Notes/Comments: Automatic shuffler with RNG for starting hand. Can only play one hand + Dragon hand, not two hands with bonus. Table max aggregate payout is $25.000 per round (I think).
     
  3. Aw234

    Aw234 Low-Roller

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    Great idea. Were booked in September but heading to Biloxi next week. Would you want to include different venues or keep it Las Vegas? I really don't care for the Pai Gow at Main Street or the Cal. You have to get a full house or better for a bonus.


    Aw234
     
  4. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    No, I say get as much info as we can on all casinos nationwide. Man, I hear so many folks heading to Biloxi, maybe some day I will make it there. Have a great trip!

    And now you have me curious about MSS and CAL, oh, is that for a progressive bonus and maybe that don't offer fortune bet???
     
  5. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Have fun in Biloxi, I'm there about every other week, it's not Vegas but its still pretty decent.:beer::beer:
     
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  6. Aw234

    Aw234 Low-Roller

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    MSS and the Cal's Pai Gow table is basically the same except for the bonus. It is a progressive but you give the dealer say 20 bucks and they load a meter for your seat, each seat has one. You make your bonus bet using the meter and the bonus starts at a full house. It's called a G3 Side Bet Betting System and you can bet on your hand and the dealers hand. Never seen anything like it. We stay at MSS but play Pai Gow at Binions, Golden Nugget, Four Queens or Plaza. Maybe somebody else could explain it better.

    Aw234
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  7. Kuch1000

    Kuch1000 Low-Roller

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    Awesome idea. My wife and I love to find the $5 tables. Since we play together, it ends up doubling the price, so playing $10 a deal versus $20 or $30 can make a difference if you hit a bad streak. We just like to play, not looking to break the bank.

    We're headed out there in 1 week - we'll be happy to add a bunch of current entries to the database. I think time of day is critical since a lot of places raise stakes at night.

    We've historically played a lot at El Cortez and South Point. Last September, SP had probably 3-4 $5 tables, and another 3-4 tables at high denoms.
     
  8. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    Okay Pai Gow Poker fans, I have started a database of game conditions for Pai Gow tables in Vegas and around the country. BUT we need to all contribute to it. So as you play your favorite game, please note the following:
    Name of Casino
    Time of day you played
    Min/Max
    Number of tables
    Rule Variations
    Comments

    You can submit this information via the form, http://bit.ly/PGPdatabase or submit the information here and I will add it.

    The database is available to view right now http://bit.ly/PaiGowtableconditions. 10 casinos already listed
     
  9. gms5997

    gms5997 Low-Roller

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    Love the database! We're heading to Biloxi next week, so we'll try and keep track of the pai gow tables there. Just a thought ~ if you want to include non-Vegas casinos, maybe add a "State" column to the database?
     
  10. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Biloxi is fun. At the Isle (now Golden Nugget) you'll have the 'Emperor Pai Gow' where you'll still have the Fortune Bonus option but also 'PaiGow Insurance'. This is a bet that you WILL get a PaiGow, and you get paid more based on how crappy your PaiGow is. It's probably a bad bet, but sort of fun.

    IP and Bellagio have the $1 progressive in addition to Fortune Bonus. IP's progressive was well over $200,000 when I was there 3 weeks ago. It's actually a positive bet at that point. Everyone else has at least one PaiGow table and they all have the Fortune Bonus. Everyone lets you bank, and some let you play two hands, some do not. There is no dragon hand.
     
  11. mjames1229

    mjames1229 VIP Whale

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    It is imperative that you take the Pai Gow Insurance if you are banking the hand! Take a look at the potential loss and throw a proper insurance wager on the spot.
     
    Super Bowl with my son
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  12. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Can I update w/o noting the various bonus offerings (or Dragon Hands)? I like Pai Gow, but rarely bet any bonuses. I note table limits and whether you can bank.

    Great idea and I'll have several entries upon my return from Vegas this August.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Noting which side-bet options are available and whether you can play multiple hands or a dragon hand is probably key to this listing, (and of course, table minimums/max, side-bet maximums). Nothing much else changes in this game except details of their house way (which would be nearly impossible to document accurately) and the exact pattern of the movement of the banking button. Also whether A2345 is the 2nd highest straight or not (which barely matters). The aggregate table payout limit might also be interesting, but again, it barely matters.
     
  14. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    Added a few to the chart. I will make sure to keep better track of Pai Gow Poker conditions while walking through the casinos.

    In the last two months have played at NYNY (2 tables always going), Margaritaville (one table) and Golden Gate (one table in their 'dance pit' - which, as far as I know, is the only Pai Gow Poker table that has dancers near by - seems to always be blackjack).

    All had similar conditions: $10 min., No Dragon Hand (except at NYNY), and Fortune Bonus.

    I wish I could have played longer, however, have been on quite a losing streak recently - yup, $400 buy-in, $50/hand - play for less than an hour in all casinos - yuck! (for 42%? pushes, that is not the case for my cards!!)
     
  15. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Sounds good. One other aspect I would note is type of commission. At the JW Marriott, IIRC Sunset Station and a few other off strip properties, there are no commission payments. The house edge comes into play with players pushing on a queen high dealer pai gow. Those are the three conditions I note (min bet & the ability to bank the other two). The Queen High Pai Gow rule benefits the player.

    The best time (and only decent) time to play the side bet is $5 (to get envy) on a full table. I like to play as a social drinking game, but I save my side bet money for drinks and better opportunities with the exception of my "last hand" stand after a few bad deals where I walk if I don't win the hand.
     
  16. 2VegasNuts

    2VegasNuts High-Roller

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    Venetian has 1 table with the same rules. $25 min and empty most of the time.
     
  17. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    Wow, good ideas everyone, I am updating and making some changes later tonight. At first, I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested in collecting this information but since in only one day the DB has been looked at almost 30 times and we have added 5 casinos in one day, I see this as a good start.

    You have given me some good ideas, I didn't even think about Banking so going to add that as a yes/no ?
    Also, going to add a Location column, folks can just type in city.
    Progressive jackpot ? column
    Aggregate amount, I think I am just going to leave that up to people to put in comments for now. (if that really bothers you, sent me a Pm and we can discuss)

    Someone asked if they could enter some basic info without all the details about variations, etc. My thought on this is sure I would like 100% full information and total accuracy BUT I like to think I am realistic and some info is better than none. For example, I didn't note who allowed dragon hands on my last trip, something I need to note on future trips. So I say, enter whatever info you can gather and hopefully we will get enough to sort things out.

    In that vain, I will share what for me was a handy tool. I have an iphone but assume most smart phones (all brands) have a small voice recorder included. It was pretty easy to just sit down, play a bit, then step away from table and make a small voice recording with all the details.

    OH, Viva Las Vegas (great handle, how did you snag that one?) the commission free game you are talking about is actually called EZ Pai Gow and a choice in the variations ?

    Maybe eventually way down the road, we will end up with a page like vpfree2 which I consider a great page for video poker machine conditions.
     
  18. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    I was surprised it was available when I signed up!

    I will update the database and note the variations I do not wager (Bonus type & Dragon Hand) when I return. Thanks for setting up the database and the explanation.

    On Wizard of Odds, they note commission free is better for the player (1.3% house edge vs. 2.73%). When I looked at the bonus odds, a full table $5 bet w/envy is 3%, a decent percentage for a gimmick bet. When you are betting less than $5 or at a non full table, the house edge increases significantly.

    Bottom line - If you play the gimmick side bet, limit your bets to $5 at a full table.

    Link
    Bonus Bet House Edge
    Players & Bet Size

    <$5 $5 $10 $15 $25
    6 7.77% 3.13% 5.45% 6.22% 6.84%
    5 7.77% 4.06% 5.91% 6.53% 7.02%
    4 7.77% 4.99% 6.38% 6.84% 7.21%
    3 7.77% 5.91% 6.84% 7.15% 7.39%
    2 7.77% 6.84% 7.30% 7.46% 7.58%
    1 7.77% 7.77% 7.77% 7.77% 7.77%
     
  19. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    Pai Gow Poker Updates

    Greetings,

    Our little database of minimums/maximums, rule variations has grown to 24 casinos including our first non Vegas casino. The database has been looked at almost 60 times and hopefully helping some of us find our favorite Pai Gow tables. Thanks to all that have contributed and please continue to do so.

    Access the database: http://bit.ly/PaiGowtableconditions

    Contribute to database: http://bit.ly/PGPdatabase
     
  20. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    I have tried playing Pai Gow poker on the Bovada practice site (linked through the Wizard) and I just can't seem to ever get on a roll and get up even a little bit before I run out of cash from losing....I have seen sometimes when I have made mistakes setting the hands (like moving a pair to the two cards and keeping a single pair in the 5 card hand and an Ace and something else and losing because I did not keep the two pair in the 5 cards and I would have the better 2 card hand with Ace something else)

    is there any practice site that gives actual advice.....I learned a ton from the blackjack sites that stop you and say you are making a wrong move and the JoB sites that that do the same and on the Bovada practice Baccarat site I can get on a nice roll occasionally, but with Pai Gow it is always win win lose lose lose win lose lose lose broke.....the game seems interesting, but not if you can't ever get on a roll.....Baccarat on the other hand is much more fun than I thought it would be for a pretty mindless game overall.....easy and fun who can hate that

    and as far as Pai Gow tiles.....hell I better just give up on that

    sorry for the long slightly off topic question, but any Pai Gow practice sites with a strategy reminder/tips would be great thanks!
     
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