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Table Games Pai Gow commission

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Mattwall, Mar 23, 2013.

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  1. Mattwall

    Mattwall Tourist

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    Am very much looking forward to playing this game. My question is about commission.

    What is the best way to handle my funds when playing $10 (sometimes $25) a hand? What other funds should I have on hand to accommodate the commission? I would hate to look foolish and not be prepared.

    Many Thanks
     
  2. aggie182

    aggie182 Off Key and Out of Tune

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    They'll make change the 1st time and you keep that change for the next commissions. When you run out of that stack of change, bet it on the bonus, or tip it away to the cocktail waitress - the dealer will make change again.
     
  3. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    This is a non issue. The only time you have to worry about commission is when you win. If that's the case, they could always take it out of your winnings. You will never have to worry about being embarrassed.

    For example, if you bet $10 and win, they will just pay you $9.5. Likewise, if you bet $25, they will just pay $23.75.
     
  4. joart75

    joart75 Tourist

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    Does this mean that they pay you with a mixture of chips and coins?
     
  5. Dougie

    Dougie I am IN!

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    Yes.........
     
  6. Aw234

    Aw234 Low-Roller

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    Just watch a few hands before you buy in and you will catch on, I always start with 10 one dollar chips. I like to bet a buck on the bonus for the dealer on my first or second hand, tips for CW and of course commission. Just remember you can't ask a question that hasn't been ask before.


    Aw234
     
  7. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Yes. Stacks of quarters and sometimes half-dollars are always part of the pai gow dealer's tray.

    I like to bet $20 or $40 or $60 so the commission comes out 'even'. I've even seen tables in Florida where they have $20 chips to encourage the players to do exactly that.
     
  8. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Also keep in mind that a lot of casinos will waive the commission if you play at least $5 on the bonus bet. I'm not sure on the edge (and it varies from casino to casino I'm sure), but depending on how much you're wagering on the hand, it can actually make more sense statistically to bet the fortune bonus rather than pay the commission.
     
  9. TheDrake

    TheDrake Tourist

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    I would be interested in knowing what casinos you have seen do this. Seems like a pretty good deal.
     
  10. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    I have seen this in WA, where I live, but I've never seen it in Vegas. Some casinos in WA don't charge commission at all, period.
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    commission is the only way the house makes money. so if they're not charging commission, they have to change other rules. you can guarantee they're not putting on the game for free.
     
  12. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    It's been about a year since I played PGP in Vegas, but if I remember correctly, it was a CET property (I think it was Harrah's) that I was playing at with that rule.

    Statistically speaking, I think the house edge on the fortune bonus is like 7-8% so a 5 dollar bet costs you about $0.40 each hand in theo (which is less than the commission on the bet for most people). Of course due to the high payouts skewing that, the reality is that you need a much bigger bankroll as the variance on that $5 bet is pretty high and you could easily burn through a lot of additional cash vs. paying the commission.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    You won't find this in Vegas, (or really any other place I've been, Mississippi, Florida, Pennsylvania, etc.)

    If you could play at $200 a hand with $5 on the bonus bet you'd drive the edge on the game down near zero.
     
  14. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Well, I've played it in Vegas, so you're incorrect. Unless it's changed in the last year. Also I was only betting $25/hand to kill time, so maybe there's some correlation to your bet? I.E. If I was betting $50 a hand I'd have to play $10 on the bonus bet. Not sure but it does exist.

    This is copied from Wizard of Odds:

    http://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/pai-gow-poker/

    "According to my sources in Washington state many casinos waive the 5% commission if the player makes the Fortune side bet. The most common pay table for the Fortune bet in Washington I’m told is 2/3/4/5/25/50/150/400/1000/2000/8000, which has a house edge of 7.83% less 1.07% for each additional player at the table. So the expected loss of a $5 Fortune bet is 39.14 cents less 5.34 cents for each additional player. The following table shows the breakeven point between making and not make the Fortune bet according to the number of players at the table, including yourself.
    •1 player: $27.36
    •2 players: $23.63
    •3 players: $19.90
    •4 players: $16.17
    •5 players: $12.44
    •6 players: $8.71
    •6 players: $4.98


    For example, if there are four players (including yourself) you should make the Fortune bet if your pai gow poker bet is $17 or more, and not if it is $16 or less."

    He is referring to a specific question about Washington state, but clearly this is something that is offered at some casinos.
     
  15. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    I know you are adamant that this occurred at Harrahs in Vegas, but I can tell you that you would be hard-pressed to find any casino in Vegas that does not charge a commssion if you bet the fortune bonus. I would think that you may not remember accurately.

    No commssion Pai Gow exists, but there is some variance of the rules. For example, there is a local casino in California that does not charge commssion, but if the dealer gets a Queen high pai gow, it is a push for everyone, even if they had a higher hand. However, if one bets on the other bonus bet for for the bank to get queen high pai gow, then the payout is 50 to 1.

    I really don't know where you experience pai gow to be able to say, "a lot of casinos will waive the commission if you play at least $5 on the bonus bet."

    This is not accurate at all. Number 1, it's rare if it exists. Number 2, you would be very hard-pressed to find it in Vegas.
     
  16. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    You can also find these rules in Vegas at The Rampart (JW Marriott) and Sunset Station, and likely at other locals casinos (those are the only two I know of first hand).

    This method of extracting "commission" is much better for the player over the long run.

    I never heard of bonus bettors being exempt from paying commission (though I've only played Pai Gow in Nevada). I have NEVER seen it in Nevada games I have played (Vegas, Reno, Tahoe). I may play a bonus bet once or twice a session, if I have a few bad hands in a row and am "due" for a good hand. If I lose, I leave. Betting the bonus every hand will grind you down, and you will have far more losing sessions.
     
  17. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Perhaps "a lot" was a poor choice of words, but I can assure you that I played this in Vegas a little over a year ago. And with all due respect, unless you've been to every casino on the strip, and looked/played/inquired at every PGP table that they have in the casino, it's a bit preposterous that you could be so sure that I'm incorrect.

    Also you're describing EZ Pai Gow (Q high push), and it wasn't that.

    Again I believe it was Harrah's, but I am certain of what the rules were, simply because I was killing time and would not have played the fortune bonus if not for them waiving the commission. Perhaps this was an anomaly, and perhaps it no longer exists, but I'll take my first hand knowledge over your perceived expertise on every PGP game offered in LV. :peace:
     
  18. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    I haven't been to every single casino on the strip, but I have been to every CET property and played Pai Gow at all except for Bills and the Quad. Pai gow is all I play.

    I can't speak about your experience, but I can speak about my experiences and with more recency in terms of experience.

    I can also assure you that you will not find another poster on here who will support a similar experience as yours at CET, specifically Harrahs, about waiving the commission because you are betting the bonus.

    I will just leave it at that.
     
  19. TheDrake

    TheDrake Tourist

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    I have never seen anything like it on the strip or downtown. Easy pai Gow has no commish but that is a different game. Thats why I asked. You would have to drag me off of that table with wild horses.
     
  20. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    They have this in AC as well. I haven't played PGP in a long time but thought I remembered $20 chips at the Bellagio as well. Maybe I'm mistaken.

    Anyone know if they allow you to bet the commission on top of your bet to effectively reduce the rate? I remember we used to do this in AC to cut the edge down and they allowed it. For example we would bet $105 for a $100 bet so they'd take the $5 chip as commission instead of $5.25. It slightly reduced the effective commission to 4.76%. Nothing huge but its all a game of inches. Do they allow this Vegas?
     
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