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Noir is bullshit

Discussion in 'Comps' started by mbely1000, Feb 14, 2013.

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  1. mbely1000

    mbely1000 Tourist

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    I was perusing through the comp threads and came upon the thread on missing or stolen express comps. I can never get the Mlife website to work so I called VIP services at Aria. After confirming that I was not missing any express comps, I got curious and asked about the criteria or formula for determining Noir level (I have been platinum level since the new Mlife program began, but never Noir). VIP services had no anwers and put me through to my host at the Aria.

    He told me that Noir was invitation only (which I already knew from reading the thread on that subject on Vegasmessageboards). I then asked him how they determined who was invited. He said that there was no set formula or criteria and that the invitation process was generally bullshit and the Noir level was bullshit. He then said that he knew of Noir players that gambled at hand averages less than him (of course, not knowing his bet levels made his comment somewhat vague, but I got his overall point). Further, he stated that Noir players did not get any more benefits than platinum players besides a bigger discount at retail stores. He said that I would get the same comp treatment (I am RFL, suite, $350 a day) no matter what my mlife level.

    I assume that he would not tell me this information unless it was true, because he would have every incentive to encourage me to chase after Noir level. However, I can imagine that this post may smack of sour grapes, so I would be interested to hear what Noir level players have to say on this subject.

    FWIW, my experience at the craps and BJ tables has been that I bet as high or higher than most Noir cardholders that I have played with.
     
  2. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    I am begining to think all casino tier programs are BS, and the only value is to be
    a high ADT player at a couple of properties which you average a few trips a year at.

    Once the free booze dries and decent room comps dry up at CET with the TR cutback that is coming, I will head to greener pastures downtown. I already planted the seeds last year and am getting some okay mailers.

    I honestly believe that new low tier player with a high theo loss over 3 trips, is now the golden customer the casino marketing department chases. All the rest of us are just getting a percentage of our Theo or actual losses. Personal service is long gone and Tier status is nothing but made up hype to get the player to dump more money in pursuit of some elusive status.

    If you do happen to hit a winning streak over a couple of trips, your nothing but deadbeat to the casino marketing department, who will cut back comps when your actual loses dry up.

    Anyway so whats my point, Vegas is now dead to the mid tier player wanting personalized service and some of us loyal customers are so annoyed to the point that we will tell the big guys to stick there 7 star, Noir, Platinum level statuses up their hinder.
     
  3. Kiwicol

    Kiwicol Low-Roller

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    The takeout message from this is though, that unless you particularly wanted a different coloured card or a higher retail discount level - you have no need for Noir.

    I'm happy at Platinum provided my host continues to be good to me:beer:
     
  4. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    The VIP service person actually said it was "bullshit"???

    I'm not surprised by it being the case but I'm surprised he would actually say it and use that language.

    If you're going to get Noir or any tier for your play you would be dumb not to take it -- if you're going to play to get to Noir or any tier you would be dumb to go for it.

    I've been Diamond at CET for ages and Platinum at MLife since it rolled out and I agree the benefits are pretty worthless. In fact reading the boards the main thing people seem to like are the line cutting privileges but I almost never see any lines for things anyway -- and even if you're not a higher tier you can usually get a line pass from your host or VIP services if you have some worthwhile gambling anyway. Maybe for the occasional long taxi line it has some worth.

    The entire tier system is just part of the overall reduction in comps that was perfected by CET. Basically a way to give you a fairly worthless status symbol for your play while overall reducing comps. They say Noir is invitation only but at 1,000,000 tier points you'll be invited unless you have a really bad history. That is 5 times that requirement for Platinum -- yet the benefits are almost the same. You get things like limo service which most people Platinum players are probably getting anyway through their hosts or suite reservations. I can't remember the last time I didn't get a limo pickup at the airport. Noir supposedly gets guaranteed reservations at any restaurant -- but again I can't remember the last time I didn't get a reservation when and where I wanted and usually don't even book them through my host but just myself.

    In fact Gold gets almost all the same benefits as well -- including all those line cutting privileges which seem to be the most important to a lot of people.
     
  5. mbely1000

    mbely1000 Tourist

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    Not VIP services, my host. And yes, my host said that it was "bullshit." I don't want to give out a name for obvious reasons, but honestly, my host literally said that Noir and the invitation criteria for Noir was "bullshit."
     
  6. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    OK that makes more sense since it was someone you had a relationship with. He's right though -- but like Funkhouser said all the tier levels are bullshit not just Noir.

    Just out of curiosity -- what's your level of play to get RFL [suite + $350 a day] at Aria?
     
  7. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    I've been noir since the mlife program first launched at the Beau back in 2010. All the noir card gets you is some casino employees kissing your ass more than Plat players. all the really important stuff like comps and invitations to things are based on your theo and actual losses regardless of the color of your card.

    The requirements for invite used to be 100k theo or actual loss in the past 12 months.
     
  8. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    How so? What constitutes extra ass-kissing on the casino floor anyway?
     
  9. mbely1000

    mbely1000 Tourist

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    I ususually have a $10K to $15K budget (meaning I am willing to lose up to that amount). I play strictly table games, no machines at all. My average bet has been anywhere from $350 to $575 a hand, and I usually average 3.5 to 4 hours of play per day.
     
  10. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    I have to agree with Shifter, my ass gets kissed slightly more than my buddies because of the Noir card, but that is about it.

    I'm sure come Oct 1st I won't be invited, which is funny since I'll easily have enough points. Makes all those points above 200K meaningless.
     
  11. SnivesM

    SnivesM Tourist

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    I agree with the above posts as well. For all of the time (and more to the point dinero) spent at these places "the best of everything, period" as a Noir player in 2012 was crap. I will see what 2013 as a Platinum (or Mica or Quartz who cares) does for me.

    My corporate offer for Spring is a deluxe room (not a suite), $100 in F&B per day and $300 FreePlay. Based on past experiences, my hosts at Bellagio, Mirage, MB and Monte Carlo (the places I've played in the past) won't budge much on this (perhaps a suite - Mirage or MC). So I bother them not.

    I had 1.8 million Tier Credits on five trips out in 2012 (before Oct 1st) and have close to $4K in Express Comps.

    A standard room at the Bellagio just doesn't ring my chimes anymore - maybe it did years back...

    For comparison, my offer at Venetian (where played once last year) is suite, $350 FP, $75 food. That seems maybe a little generous given my play there.

    The only host in Vegas who does it right (in my mind) is Alan R. at Wynn. Last trip he offered up a Parlor Suite with a connector in the Tower Suites with RFB and 1K in FreePlay with my family in tow. The rooms were loaded up with snacks & various trays. Didn't have to; wasn't expecting that (felt greedy for sure but if offered again wouldn't refuse), but that kind of treatment (obviously) sticks with you.

    My loyalty has shifted from mlife to Wynn for 2013. We'll see how it works out.
     
  12. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    It's been said many many times around here...it's not about the tier, it's about the ADT. I'm Seven Stars and Noir...do I try to reach these levels? Nope. However, if my play is already going to be at this level, it is nice to be appreciated and feel that there is return for your loyalty. I average about 1mil tier credits per trip when I'm in Vegas. I'm also careful not to visit an MGM property if I'm not staying there. Meanwhile with Caesars, I make a lot of trips to Caesars properties around the country...my play adds up to Seven Stars easily, at about 3000-4000 RC's per day. I think Noir pales in comparison to Seven Stars in terms of benefits...but finally this year they're starting to take steps to give the elite level a difference. As someone who reaches the top tier with my play, there is a psychological benefit to loyalty programs where you know where you stand. Noir may be bullshit...but if Platinum was the highest level, and I reached that level in 4 hrs, it would make me feel like the casino didn't care for my level of action.

    At Wynn (where Alan R. is my host as well), they take very good care of me, but I always feel like there's no guarantee that I'll get the preferrential treatment. Sure, I get the star on my room key, but that doesn't carry the cache of Seven Stars where employees are TOLD you are worth $1200 per day to the casino. These levels exist so that players get the recognition they feel they've earned. Casino comp policies are largely math-based...understand the math and you'll understand what you're due and how to identify if you're over or under comped.
     
  13. KingBBInLV

    KingBBInLV High-Roller

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    Noir card get's me in to the Penthouse lounge at MB, free drinks and big screen TV's and Anjuli hooks the drinks up up there! I also get guaranteed next up table when I go to any MGM Resorts restaurant, no reservation needed. Guaranteed limo service to and from the airport is another prety good perk, I walk in to the MGM desk area at McCarran airport show my card and they take me right to the limo.
     
  14. maximus56k

    maximus56k Tourist

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    Cap is on the money about the psychological aspect. We seem to play on the same level and after I left CET and started with MGM I was shocked to go from zero to the black card in 1 trip. Post trip thoughts were certainly down the "that's it?" road. I also agree that as a slot only player CET was more attentive to me but I didn't like the resort/casinos as much and to attract my wife I had to move. My hosts have filled in nicely where MLife sluffs off with freeplay and meals. The OP did say something I have also had an issue with in that not one single employee of MGM/MLife has a clue about this 30-40% on EC's thing and how it's supposed to work.

     
  15. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yeah the 1M TCs for Noir was way, way too low. lots of medium level players make that in 1-2 trips, so that's nowhere near enough. 100k theo per year is a pretty good balance I think between making it exclusive and making it ridiculously hard to obtain. truly big players can still make that in one trip, but for the medium level players that's in the 3-6 trip range, which is reasonable to make each year.
     
  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Any difficulty in getting restaurant reservations in Vegas seems like a crock of shit after my last trip. I didn't even bother going through my host or the Sky Suites concierge for any. Any day and any time was showing up as available for all the good MGM property restaurants on my phone's OpenTable app (which is the way I book reservations all the time at home, takes 2 seconds). Even checking for Friday or Saturday night reservations at the last minute. The one time I included a note for a specific table (Craftsteak) we got it even though we showed up 30 mins early. Plus I get the opentable points :)

    shifter is right about the qualifications for Noir being too low. I'm not Noir at all, but on my last trip which was the first trip playing at MGM casinos since MLife I earned over 240k tier points with fairly little play over the weekend. A lot less play than I would normally have done. So if at my level I could get to Noir in about 3 trips per year it can't be all that exclusive. CaptainJack makes a lot of good points but I imagine its the lack of any real exclusivity that irks some Noir players.
     
  17. Kimsa70

    Kimsa70 High-Roller

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    Agree with you on all those points. I'll be hitting up Anjuli tonight and tomorrow if I can make it there before they close at 8pm. :beer:
     
  18. PopMegaphone

    PopMegaphone VIP Whale

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    Honest question - if you're Noir it's not like you're paying for drinks anyway, right? I'd also assume limo service would be guaranteed anyway for a high level player.
     
  19. Gregsmt

    Gregsmt Low-Roller

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    Well, at 1,000,000 tiers, I could make noir with 1 or 2 additional trips per year. I earned 200k tiers last trip and usually make 3 trips a year. But for 100k theo, there's no way I would even attempt it. So I'll be happy with platinum.
     
  20. Grid

    Grid VIP Whale

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    I'm platinum, I stayed at the Mirage back in Dec and had to wait in line with the other scrubs at the invited guest line. Meanwhile all the Noir holders had their own check in room with free booze, snacks and TV's. I even tried a friendly smile and a sneakin to get checked in there. Its right next to the normal checkin lines but I was chased out when I couldnt show a Noir card.

    So being Noir sure would have been a help there! I know they also get 10% more TC & EC's vs us Platinum losers and dont forget the free limo. So I wouldnt say its bull shit. Obviously I'd rather be Noir than Platinum. But I dont think its worth chasing.

    Now Diamond with CET is well worth it vs their Platinum level. 1st up service on everything, cuts in front of the lines and the lounges that are everywhere are plenty nice. And you only have to gamble a fraction of Noir level to get that!
     
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