1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

New Casino in NY

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Hotels & Casinos' started by ShepherdDon, Dec 22, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ShepherdDon

    ShepherdDon Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Heard on the news last night (and then just read about it this morning on line) that a new casino - themed on the Wizard of Oz - is going to open east of Schenectady, NY. Not a big one but just another casino. Article also said that there was a great big one going to be constructed and opened someplace in that state.

    Got me to thinking. Isn't it to our advantage to see one open on every street corner? Wouldn't the competition cause the casinos to have to scramble around trying to find new ways to attract customers? Maybe they'd even put in some machines and games that had narrower profit margins. Maybe they'd increase the comping percentages.

    There are probably societal reasons that proliferation isn't good but, come on, with lotteries and on line and the casinos that are open, there is quite a bit of opportunity for people with an uncontrollable itch just as there are lots of bars and liquor sales for people with that kind of problem. They sell tobacco products everywhere and that crap will kill you.

    I think I'd like to see a major increase in competition. Probably cause a lot of turnover, but wouldn't it be fun?

    Don

    A link to Don's articles - some about casinos and gambling.
     
  2. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,117
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    There is already lots of competition out there - maybe not in every state or locale. But, lots of competition has caused 4-5 casinos to close in Atlantic City this year. It has contributed to serious problems for CET. A large casino in Tunica (Harrahs) closed earlier this year, shuttering 3 hotels, etc.

    As to narrower profit margins and more comps - sorry, but the financial side of that does not work. At some point, they have to make money. That is the ONLY reason they are in business.
     
  3. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,839
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I see what the OP is thinking, but at the same time, too much competition actually makes me worry about the quality. The nicer casinos cost more to run. So if the competition gets too stiff, the nicer places might be the ones shut down because of their operating costs. The Tunica example shows this. The Harrahs was easily one of the three best casinos in the area. IMO, it was nicer than the other CET properties. Nevertheless, it was probably the most expensive property in the area to keep up. When revenue started to suffer, CET shut down that one rather than the other, less expensive properties
     
  4. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,148
    I'd like to agree w/ what Don stated.
    But it's about profit......not people.
    *
    NY state jumps on the bandwagon.........but the wagon is already full.
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,889
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    But the one advantage NY has over the other states. The people and money are much closer by than say AC. Once NY state approves full blown casino gaming, AC will struggle to still exist. NY was pretty dumb not legalizing it 20 plus years ago though.
     
  6. Username

    Username VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,368
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
  7. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,148
    I visited Turning Stone when it first opened.
    Only a small portion of the casino was actually opened.
    Most of it was behind a cover work sheet.
    My buddy has played the public golf course there --
    said it was unbelieveably manicured.
     
  8. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    :
    i knew a girl like that unbelievably "manicured":wink2:
     
  9. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    I'll be happy to see Turning Stone get a bit of competition. Up until recently they charged $2 just to sit down to a live poker game. Now, as I heard it they have dropped the $2 and replaced it with a higher rake. The way they take the rake is terrible. So much comes out after the flop that in a tight game 33% of a small pot might go to the casino.

    There won't be much competition in video poker. I at first thought that local casinos opening around the country would encourage them to offer decent pay tables. That did not happen. Apparently, people will play anything, so why offer better gambling? Then too a pay table like the 10/7 DB at the Four Queens would be illegal as mathematically it pays over 100%, not allowed in NY state. They want to be certain to get their taste and exploit folks to the max.

    In two articles talking about the Schenectady casino there was mention of a live poker room, but that was dropped in the latest articles. Perhaps they won't even bother with that option. Why just get paid to deal when they can have full mathematical advantage, so that every gamble is a long run losing proposition.
    That Schenectady casino would cost me a few dollars and under forty minutes in travel. Turning Stone costs me $40 each trip and three hours of driving.

    What might happen is that promotions might be created to attract customers and that might give us at times an advantage. At my last visit to Turning Stone I saw Stephen Wright for $20 at the last minute right at the box office. That is a great price!

    And I'm especially interested to see what they do in Springfield Mass. The promise is that they will coopt the historical and noncasino parts of Springfield. If they do, that would mean a visit would not be just in the casino as it is in Mohegan or Foxwoods or Turning Stone, (although my favorite Rome (8 miles from TS) Savoy restaurant told me they do get overflow from casino conventions, usually people who want to get away from the gambling.) The Savoy is just a grand old place: linen table cloths, old music, sometimes life music with a vocalist and piano, a grand and wonderful looking old fashioned bar, and great Italian food at rock bottom prices. So, if the casino worked in their favor, good.

    My favorite Springfield restaurant has reopened.
    http://www.masslive.com/dining/2014/10/the_fortstudent_prince_to_repo.html
    and perhaps the coming casino there has something to do with that. I hope it is as good as it has been.
    https://www.facebook.com/StudentPrinceCafeTheFortDiningRoom

    However Atlantic City is going to continue to be hurting and Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun will hurt as well as people go to the nearby places.

    What I'd really like is that these local casinos end up full of customers having fun. In Vegas most of the gamblers are on vacation and having a grand time. They are fun to talk with and be around. Local casinos seem to gather too many depressed old people running through their social security checks and lifetime savings as the one armed bandits grind them down. The poker and craps tables are not nearly as festive as Vegas tables.
    Gambling is an expensive hobby. It would be nice to think that it pleased the gamblers and not just the casinos gathering profits and politicians looking to assess the newest tax.
     
  10. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    Yes, The Fort/SP is now open. menu has changed a little bit....Peter Picknally(PP Bus Lines) bought the place as the owners wanted to retire.
    Springfield does need to clean up downtown.... right now it's full of heroin users/dealers .nearly every weekend a shooting or two...
    they are rehabbing the train station so you'd be able get there by rail in a couple years.
     
  11. Username

    Username VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,368
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    Wow Dewey, you hit the nail on the head on every account when it comes to local casinos in NYS.

    You are on one end of the state and I'm on the other end.....if I go to on of the Seneca owned casinos once a year that's a lot.

    We did go to Seneca Niagara Casino about 2 years ago to see Brad Garrett and it was the WORST type of seating I have ever experienced. It's a FLAT floor seating area with folding type chairs hooked together. If you have someone tall in front of you, you're SCREWED....However, they have two large TV monitors on each side of the stage that you can watch. If I wanted to watch him on TV I could of stayed home and watched Everyone Loves Raymond.......NEVER again will I go to any of the Seneca Casino's because I learned they all have flat seating in their theaters.

    Then you mentioned Springfield, Mass......About 7-8 years ago I moved my youngest son down there so he could coach (linebackers) the football team as his internship for his degree in sports management. It was a miserable place as I remembered it. The head coach was a punk that had no clue how to run a college football team. He thought he was one of the guys and even wore his hat backwards during the games.

    After a miserable season my son visited his girlfriend back in Cortland, NY where she was finishing up her senior year at Cortland State. My son Billy stopped in to visit his head coach and he offered him a job coaching there with full pay and FREE tuition to get his masters degree.........it all worked out so well that they are married and just had a baby girl.
     
  12. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Well, sounds like you have a grand reason to visit Springfield.
    I've been to Niagara Falls and liked it when they had the 3-6 limit game with half kill, but on my last visit there were no limit games whatsoever. I meet my Buffalo nephew there for a visit and some poker, but I'm uncomfortable playing no limit.
    It is quite a journey, so I doubt I'll be back anytime soon.
    I was born and raised on the east side of Buffalo. Are you near there?
     
  13. Username

    Username VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,368
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    Both my parents were from the East Side......Goodyear St.......now it looks like a war zone.........we are about 15 miles east of Buffalo.
     
  14. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    I lived on Goembel Avenue off Doat.
    I passed Goodyear every day to walk up to Moselle to do papers. Or to go to the Genesee library.
    Once I located a lost child on Goodyear Avenue on my way to do papers. He was about 4 and had started on his tricycle from way out Doat somewhere and gone all that way before he got stalled and was just riding up and down.

    Just past the turn of the century my Grandfather had a home on Goodyear. Somewhere I have old photos. I think he sold it to buy the Goembel Ave home in the early 1900's. He was a fireman, driving the horses, the oldest retired Buffalo fireman when he died in 1956.

    My house and the neighbor's house were gone the last time I drove through that old neighborhood. Pretty sad. It had great woodwork and stained glass windows. I suppose it was burned down. I lived there from my birth in 1946 until I finished college.

    I left Buffalo in 1968, went to the Air Force and then settled in the Albany area where I taught until I retired.
    But I'm now in Homosassa Florida for a few months swimming with manatee and playing poker at the Silks or Ocala Jai Alai.

    Here is the blog where I record some nonvegas trips and the second posted is my last trip to Niagara Falls
    http://foxwoodspokertr.blogspot.com/

    Small world.
     
  15. Username

    Username VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,368
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    OMG............we have more in common then you might believe.....

    My mother grew up on the south side of Goodyear just 2 or 3 homes north of the RR tracks while my dad was north of Walden about 1/2 to Genesee St.

    My dad was also in the Air Force better know as Air Corp during WWII

    My son is a Captain in the Air Force now serving as a doctor at Bethesda Military Hospital. Come April he will be promoted to Major.

    In the volunteer fire company I serve for we had the oldest volunteer "Henry" in NYS. Henry was still a member of our company when he passed at 99.....a huge turnout from all neighboring departments for his funeral. At the time I was our company's secretary and had to organize the funeral proceedings.
     
  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    I don't know. I like casinos as much as anyone on this board, but I feel like these local casinos do more harm than good. Unlike destination casinos, these local places are just there to feed off of the local community. You mention the proliferation of liquor stores and bars but the places where you see liquor stores on every corner are distressed communities. You don't see that in nice neighborhoods. I'm not saying the proliferation of liquor stores causes the problems in those places, but it can't be helping. Sure you can make a free-market argument but I'm of the opinion that we have govt so they can factor in societal issues as well.

    Resorts World New York generates the most slot revenue of any casino in the country or something like that. But people aren't flying in to go to that casino. And they're not getting their business from the high-income crowd at white shoe firms a couple miles away in Manhattan, in fact you'll never hear about the casino and can easily forget it exists. It mostly feeds off the large middle and working class crowd in Queens, Brooklyn, and western LI. Now they are proposing a casino in Jersey City as well. Doubtful that even if a nice space was available they would ever open a casino in a nearby town like Greenwich or on the UES. But put it in Jersey City and they call it developing in an underserved community.
     
  17. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Hey, Username, let's continue the conversation in the PM section.
     
  18. AnotherVegasKid

    AnotherVegasKid Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Agree with the comments Springfield needs to be cleaned up. Was already too sketchy where L'Uva closed. Do miss that place though.

    The new casino in NYS is going to be just north of 17 (i86) in Monticello.
     
  19. lithium78

    lithium78 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    All these locals casinos popping up everywhere make me feel depressed. They never offer any decent shows (and absolutely never have original residencies) and the quality of the rooms, games, restaurants, etc. are generally quite crappy. It was more fun when Nevada and AC were the only places to gamble in the USA. Things were a little classier.
     
  20. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    averill park (near albany) ny
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    There are three new ones coming that are non Indian and one Indian.
    http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/new-york/2014/12/22/casino-picks-winners-losers/20764095/

    More details here:
    https://www.gamingtoday.com/articles/article/51024-Winners_losers_in_upstate_NY_casino_decision#.VJn-aScGA

    The losing East Greenbush proposal affected me the most. That would have been just minutes from my house and changed my normal commute to Albany. It was not very popular with the people. It would not have benefited any depressed area. The town of East Greenbush is in fine shape financially.

    The new Indian casino is outlined here.
    http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/exclusive_oneida_indian_nation_opening_new_casino_in_cny.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.