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Table Games New 21 variant

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Bungadin, Oct 2, 2014.

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  1. Bungadin

    Bungadin Low-Roller

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    Change it 21 on a 45 day trial run at the Fremont.

    You get to exchange one card for a fresh one after a 50 percent match of the original bet. You can do it after splitting pairs, too, but only the drawn card can be replaced. The hand is then played as normal. Players may double and split after changing a card. A changed blackjack even gets paid as if it were dealt.

    Rules that offset the card exchange:
    6 decks
    Dealer hits soft 17
    Blackjack pays 6-5
    No double down after splitting
    Surrender and re-split aces are not offered

    It looks to me like it's a way to get people to play 6:5.
     
  2. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

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    Thanks for the info. Free Bet seems much more appealing than this variant to me.
     
  3. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Wow another carnival game...they just keep thinking of more ways to disadvantage the player and take your money.
     
  4. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    See, I'm cool with this, though. Spread all the carnival games they can come up with, give them whatever rules they want, but leave 3:2 blackjack for those of us who want a good bet.
     
  5. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    You have a good point, good way of looking at this....:thumbsup:
     
  6. Brewfangrb

    Brewfangrb Low-Roller

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    This is definitely in line with what I was saying/suggesting in the thread about MC going all 6:5. Just add the side bet options and carnival games like crazy. People casual or uneducated enough to want to play 6:5 will play the carnival games and side bets. It increases the casino's overall margin and can leave 3:2 on normal BJ games. The optional stuff doesn't bother me nearly as much changing base game rules to the house's advantage.
     
  7. bonnie08734

    bonnie08734 Tourist

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    I watched this game at the Fremont last week. There were 3 people playing and I probably watched 10 hands. Not one time during the 10 hands did anyone switch their 2nd card. Even if you do pay to switch your card, it doesn't mean it's going to better your hand. I think eliminating double after split on a 6 deck shoe game and 6:5 blackjack is a deal killer for me. I don't see myself playing this one.
     
  8. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    Can we now please stop the myth that downtown has great gambling rules? More carny games are coming in. The last time I played craps at the Fremont I was surprised to find out that I could not play 5x odds. I don't blame them for trying to profit as much as possible. I believe downtown generally has better rules than the Strip (generally, not specifically), but they are changing to not great payouts.
     
  9. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I'm not even sure which hands you would hands you would want to pay the fee and switch. Ten-five or Ten-six maybe? Half a bet seems so steep.
     
  10. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    The way I'm reading this is that you're NOT paying to switch cards - you're upping your bet by 50% to switch cards.
    In the case of 10-crap vs. a dealer 7 or 8, (for example), that would not be a bad deal. (8/13 chance of improving to 17+, 7/13 chance of improving to 18+...so, better than 50% in both cases).
    Dealer 9 or 10? Now you're talking about a less-than-50% chance of improving. So one would not do so then...just hit.
    In any event, the 6:5 is a slap in the face... but I may give it a try on my next trip.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Everything I read so far made me not think it was this way. Mainly this thread. http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/19625-change-it-21/ And upping your bet to be able to redraw your worst card has to be a huge player edge.
     
  12. dutchvelvet

    dutchvelvet VIP Whale

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    While I'm no math guru, my instinct tells me this game is no where near as good for the player as Switch or Free Bet (or normal rules blackjack).

    I like a good carnival game as much as the next guy, but this just doesn't seem right. I mean, a 50% non refundable fee for a new card? It's really not much better than surrender (pay 50% to get two new cards the next hand). Does not appear to justify intentionally playing at a 6:5 table.
     
  13. doug2288

    doug2288 Low-Roller

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  14. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    I think tringlomane is right.

    The dealer takes the 50% fee and places it directly in the rack. It is not part of the bet.
     
  15. doug2288

    doug2288 Low-Roller

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    read this:
    “Change it 21″ Launches at Fremont Casino in Las VegasJohn Mehaffey Sep.30, 2014 6:54:pM
    Change it 21 opened its first table at Fremont Casino & Hotel in downtown Las Vegas last week. The blackjack variant is in a 45-day field trial. During that time, it may only be spread at one table in one casino.
    The game is dealt much like traditional blackjack. It uses six decks. The minimum bet is $5. Players make a wager and get dealt two cards face up. The dealer receives one card up and the other down.
    The twist is that a player may exchange one of his cards for a fresh one off the top of the deck. This requires a 50 percent match of the original bet. For example, a player that wagered $10 would need to place a $5 fee next to it and tell the dealer which card he wants replaced. This action may be made after splitting pairs, however, only the drawn card may be changed.
    The hand is then played as normal. Players may double and split after changing a card. A changed blackjack even gets paid as if it were dealt.
    There are some rules that offset the card exchange:
    •Dealer hits soft 17, which has become the norm for blackjack as a whole
    •Blackjack pays 6-5
    •No double down after splitting
    •Surrender and re-split aces are not offered
    David Ledbetter of Change it 21, LLC knew the game would be a success when he first played it. “I couldn’t believe it wasn’t the first blackjack variation invented,” he told USPoker. “Every player often wishes they had been dealt different cards,” Ledbetter continued. “This game satisfies that wish.”
    The company is excited about the game’s opening at Fremont and expects it to be installed in more casinos once it receives full approval from Nevada gaming regulators.
     
  16. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    Not sure how that helps your case.

    The Wizard of Odds observed the game at Freemont and said this on his forum (in the link that Tringlomane posted):

     
  17. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Based on the "Wizard's" comments, it sure seems like it's an actual fee you pay to get a different card.
    Absolutely ridiculous.
    It would be a bad bet 100% of the time.
    Now, if this is an alternative to 'surrender', you simply need to think of it this way:
    You get dealt a 10-6. Dealer has a 10 showing. You surrender your $10 bet, losing $5 on the hand (-50%).

    *ingoring pushes*
    In this game, you pay the $5 to replace the 6 (-50%).
    Let's assume the dealer has an 8 in the hole.
    You have a 7/13 chance of beating that 18 (+54%), or a 6/13 of not beating it (-46%).
    So, you'd have a (roughly) 73% expection of a $10 loss (versus a 100% expection of a $5 loss).
    In 100 such events, you lose $500 surrendering. You lose $595 with 100 such events of this new game.

    It's almost as bad if this does NOT work like "surrender" (taking half of your bet down & using that to pay the fee), but instead like an actual, extra fee, in addition to your original bet.
    For the 100 events, you lose the $500 in fees & 46% of the played hands (-$460), while winning 54% of the played hands (+$540) for a net impact of MINUS $420... and remember - this is only if the dealer has an 18. It's much worse if he has 19 or 20.
    A little bit better than 'surrender' (-$420 versus -$500), but with 3x the money at risk ($15 vs. $5).

    I will never play the game.
    'Double Exposure' 21, 'Spanish 21' & even 'Super Fun 21' would seem to be better plays than this.

    Certainly, 'Free Bet Blackjack ' is far better than any of those.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  18. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    I'm usually a fan of the Blackjack variants, but this game has no appeal to me whatsoever... I can't wait to see what the house edge is when the Wizard does the math on it.

    We have a Double Exposure BJ table here at the MGM Grand Detroit. The house edge is over 1%, but that game is fun so I don't mind it being a "worse bet" than a regular table.

    Caesars Windsor has two stay on soft 17 Spanish 21 tables, with house edges of approx. 0.40%. Surely a much better bet than this new game...
     
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