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My Theo

Discussion in 'Comps' started by zNaturaL, Mar 12, 2015.

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  1. zNaturaL

    zNaturaL Low-Roller

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    I'm always confused calculating theo compared to the comps I get. Doesn't seem to add up so I wanted to see if I am doing this correctly..

    I usually play penny slots at 40-50 cents a spin. I think I read somewhere that the average amount of spins in an hour is around 400? Sometimes I stop the reels so I assume 450 for me. Usually play between 8-12 hours a day and I'll assume an 88% payback. Of course sometimes I'll do a bet of 75 - 80 cents as well but for the most part I bet minimum.

    .45 Cents x 450 x .12 = $24.3 an hour x 10 hours = $243 a day x 3 days = $729.

    My offers always show up as 3 free nights (any night of the week), $150 FP and $50 resort credit. Am I calculating this incorrectly? I feel like my play doesn't add up to that amount of comps?

    3 nights including weekend at MGM = $300 + $150 FP + $50 Credit is $500 of comps?

    Maybe I should mention that my actual loss is much more than $729. Maybe $2000, does that factor into comps?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    400 is way too low. 600-1200 is more like it.
     
  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah shifter is right.

    Here is a 2 minute video of a guy playing "Texas Tea" without a bonus. He also is allowing all wins to be fully counted, and "Texas Tea" counts fairly slowly for a slot game. He gets 23 spins done in 2:02. That's an hourly spin rate of 679/hr. It's probably closer to 600 once you factor in bonus rounds.

    [youtube]othPG3dOY3w[/youtube]

    Most slots in my experience play a bit faster than "Texas Tea" though. So even 800 spins/hr or higher probably wouldn't be out of the question. Depends on the slots you play AND how often you are skipping the portion where the machine is counting up your line wins. The counting of line wins helps slow your rate significantly.
     
  4. zNaturaL

    zNaturaL Low-Roller

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    Thanks that definitely makes sense. I usually don't let it count up wins unless it's a super or mega big win lol. I mostly play the wms g+ like bier haus etc so 700 spins seems more reasonable to my comp level.
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Also, if all those WMS g+ slots are non-specialty ($3 coin-in per 10 tier points) you can estimate your spins per hour based on how many tier credits you earned on a trip.

    Let's say you earn 35k tier credits for your 3 day stay and play 10 hrs. a day over 3 days like you say. And play only play slots that are "non-specialty".

    35k tier credits x $3 coin-in/10 tier credits = $10.5k coin-in

    $10.5k coin-in ÷ 30 hours = $350 coin-in/hr

    $350 coin-in/hr ÷ $0.45/spin = 778 spins/hr

    And if you got $10.5k coin-in you can expect your offers to be roughly 30% of your theo (express comps would be the rest)

    If the average hold is roughly 12% like you say, it will be close, maybe a tiny bit higher hold, then trip theo would be:

    $10.5k x 0.12 = $1260

    30% of that for your offer: $1260 x 0.3 = $378.

    These numbers make your offers seem roughly appropriate, imo.
     
  6. zNaturaL

    zNaturaL Low-Roller

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    Thanks for the info, this is really helpful.

    I earned 71K TC on my trip in January, which seems like a lot compared to your calculation. I think I lost around $3k that trip.

    I am taking roughly $3500 in April and I am actually booked through a host at MGM on 3 nights, $150 FP, $50 Credit. I only used a host because I wanted them to match my Mirage offer and she said she would. Is there anything wrong with asking for extra food comp? I'm not sure how that works or if it is even a reasonable thing based on a $3500 bankroll, all slots.
     
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I'm unfortunately not an expert with stuff like this as I am a flea no-roller. Most of my knowledge is what I read from others. But there is nothing wrong with asking. And if the 71k tier credit trip in January wasn't an outlier trip for you, I would think they probably can accommodate you in some way. If not upfront, at least comp some/all of it off the back end, especially if all your nights were weeknights. Weekends will be a little tougher since the room comp is more per night.
     
  8. Hiero

    Hiero Tourist

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    Doesn't matter what you lost, although after a big loss talking to a host can sometimes get you a little more in comps.

    20k per day is enough for a free room plus a bit of spending money; 71k in 3 days is 23.7k/day, so you're looking good for continued offers.

    You'll probably get denied if you ask ahead of time (they'll say "come back at the end of your stay and we'll see"), so just go ahead and wait til the end of your stay. Stop by and talk to the host before you check out. "Hi, I wanted to know what else you could do for me" is usually sufficient to prompt them to take off what they can.

    I was thinking of suggesting quarter slots instead of nickels, but AmericanCasinoGuide's slot payback info suggests that strip quarter slots have nearly identical payback to nickel machines. Both are roughly 8.5% house edge -- it's the penny machines that are 12%.

    $3500 bankroll isn't huge, but properly managed should get you three nights in a suite plus more FP/Credit. 10 hrs/day is huge, and that means you've gutted variance -- ie that's exactly what you want to do to stretch your bankroll as far as it can go.

    24k TC in ten hours at 10TC/3$ coin-in means $720 coin-in per hour; at a .45 machine that's 1600 spins per hour. Hmm. That's fast play -- and $610 theo per day, -$1800 for the trip; which makes your actual $3k loss seem within reasonable expectation.
     
  9. zNaturaL

    zNaturaL Low-Roller

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    Appreciate the inside on this. Thanks!
     
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