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More MLife Confusion ... here are some numbers

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Kickin, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I was able to get some breakdown of the numbers for my recent trip from MLife over email and they have confused me more than ever. Here are the stats for my 5 day trip:

    Tables (All BJ):
    $235 avg bet for 20 hours 17 minutes.
    Total TCs earned from tables = 108204

    Machines (All VP):
    Total TCs earned from VP = 303175
    Base Points earned = 9112

    Total combined TCs earned = 411,379

    They actually broke the numbers down for me per day, I just compiled the totals.

    So for VP the 10 TCs per base point is way out of whack, I'm at over 30 TCs per point.

    For tables I had gotten my total theo on Day 4 at which point I was at $233 avg bet for 18 hours 2 mins and theo of $2208. The only thing not counted was Day 5 when I played a couple hours before leaving for my flight.

    So using that theo earning rate it comes out to about 52.6% of my avg bet per hour. Applying that to the full 5 days would imply a theo of $2508 from BJ.

    I was told and shown in the past that it was 30 TC/$1 theo, however with 108,204 TCs earned from tables it works out to more like 43 TC/$1 theo and 22.7 TCs per dollar avg bet per hour.

    As far as the machines go, I believe the 9112 in base points is more indicative of my coin-in. $91k in coin-in seems much more realistic to me than $300k in coin-in which would be the case if I calculated backwards from TCs. But the entire 10 TCs per point is completely off.

    For some reason, TCs seem to be earned at a much faster rate than the rates they have published.
     
  2. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Thanks for the numbers. Not surprised they conflict somewhat with what we have observed in the past.

    Any color on how $91k coin in on VP over 5 days impacts back end comps in addition to what you are getting from BJ?
     
  3. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Just curious, how many EC did you get? Lately, I have been trying to track EC to determine if there is consistency there. I have my suspicions, but not enough information yet to share it with the board. So any data helps. Thanks
     
  4. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Holy crap that's a lot of TC's in a 5 day trip! Out of curiousity, What denom VP were you playing?
     
  5. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I didn't get any back end comps. My host wasn't there the day I checked out and whoever I spoke to in the host's office just told me she couldn't give me anything more than what my host already gave me. So she used all my ECs and the balance went on my credit card.

    My upfront comps from the host were as follows:
    4 nights Aria 1-bedroom Corner Suite
    Late checkout - 6pm (this was key because I had a redeye flight)
    3 Limo transfers (1 pickup and 2 dropoffs because my gf and I were on flights to different cities at different times)
    $150 (I think) in resort credit
    2-for-1 MJ One tickets (real good seats, about $200 value)
    $225 in freeplay

    I'm not sure what the comp value of the Corner Suite is but overall I wasn't surprised to get no backend comps. But now I'm not so sure.

    I can't say exactly because I wasn't keeping too much track of it and they used up my ECs at checkout. I don't see anywhere online where I can view any accounting of them. But it looks like it was around $250 worth. I had about a $150 balance before the trip, and on the last full day I took a screen grab of my MLife page on my iPad and I had around $385 ECs. Then I would have earned a little more on that last day, though not much.

    Using 5% of the BJ theo and 1c per point for VP I should have earned about $216 ECs before Platinum bonus. With the 30% bonus it should be around $281. I think my actual ECs fell somewhere between those 2 numbers, but I may be off on that.

    Mostly $5 and some $10 (usually when I was on tilt), both at max-coin so $25 or $50 per spin. But I didn't play a lot of VP in terms of hours, at least not that I remember. VP was more of something I did in bits and pieces throughout the day. So I'm not sure why I earned so many TCs from VP. Especially since it doesn't jive at all with the points earned.
     
  6. JosieCat

    JosieCat VIP Whale

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    Well, on the web-site, it still says 1 point = 10 tier credits. I'm probably going to regret it, but I did e-mail M life about my point discrepancy issue (I earned 60,000 more tier credits on this trip than my trip in June - but earned less in point play and express comps). So we shall see what they come back with.
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Hint for tracking in the future:

    Take daily picture of points and EC from slot machine, smart phone app, etc.
    Get total BEFORE checking out.

    Ask the desk to print a statement before using points or credit card.

    Then one after.
     
  8. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    Without being too intrusive, what was your approximate bankroll and net return at that rate of play. I am curious what the actual casino win range was in for that level of play.

    TC are earned on theo, but I wonder if they adjust based on actual win / loss.

    Tables (All BJ):
    $235 avg bet for 20 hours 17 minutes.
    Total TCs earned from tables = 108204
     
  9. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    as tc are earned on theo, descetionary are earned on loss or win a host has lattitude.

    the one thing i always hate about checking out is if my is off duty.

    you can always emal them after to see what they can do buts its always harder than if your sitting in front of them
     
  10. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Its a little tricky because I ended up basically even at MGM props so I couldn't expect any comps based on losses. Usually won at BJ and lost at VP. I lost 5k for the trip because I dropped 5k on a stupid spur of the moment decision to play some BJ at Planet Hollywood while I walked over there with my gf who wanted to check out some stores at their mall. I don't know why I played there. I didn't even realize the last time I played there that the DD game has no DAS. I knew it was H17 but I guess the no DAS never came up. That became an issue on several hands and it was just an awful time with zero fun and completely pointless. At Aria when I'd lose I'd still have fun, they have great dealers who I tipped aggressively and always felt like I was getting a good gamble. At PH I just felt shafted the entire time.

    I have a 20k line at Aria plus I brought 10k in cash to use on VP and stuff. I also played at Bellagio a little where I have the same line. As far as true bankroll I don't know what I would call it. I just try to have access to enough so I don't run out if my luck runs really bad. But I never had more than 10k in markers outstanding at any one point.
     
  11. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    This actually lines up with my VP experience this trip; I was admittedly drinking and thus not paying the closest attention, but there were a couple sessions where I was playing $1 JoB for what felt like not terribly long, and wound up with upwards of 10k tier credits. At $10 per point and 10 TCs per point ,so 1000 hands total, even if I played for two hours (which I don't think I was in any given session), that would be 500+ hands an hour, which is insanely high for me, given how distracted I tend to get while sitting at the bar.
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    44inarow wouldn't that have to be 2000 hands of $1 VP for 10k TCs? Unless it was a 10 credit game. So if 1000 hands was unlikely than 2000 hands must be crazy unlikely.

    I'm actually starting to wonder if Aria's systems assign a lot more TCs than they're supposed to. Because on my first trip to Aria this year I also earned a lot of TCs, more than triple what I earned at MGM later in the year on a longer trip. I played less VP at MGM because of the worse paytables but I can't imagine it was that much less.
     
  13. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Christ almighty, just when we thought we had figured it out.

    As long as they get my theo, my base points, Pointplay and EC's correct, I don't give a shit if they temporarily (or permanently) overstate my TCs.
     
  14. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Yep, you're totally right.

    I also remember a trip to Bellagio a year or so ago where the TCs were double-counting; I was getting TCs from things I was charging to the room (including both meals, and the nightly room rate) on a real-time basis, and then I got another huge jump when the total got charged to my card at the end of the night. On the other hand, there was also the Mandalay Bay and MGM Grand trips this spring and summer where I basically earning TCs at all, which was especially disappointing because we charged a $1k dinner to my room at MGM Grand.
     
  15. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    This is why I have been trying to track TC and EC. From what I have seen so far, either the formula keeps changing, or the variable inputs (e.g., avg. bet) are not accurately recorded. Whatever the reason, I am seeing a lot of variance in how my TC and EC are awarded as well
     
  16. MidnightBJ

    MidnightBJ Low-Roller

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    I try to track my numbers very closely. I believe that as your average bet goes up, the formula changes. I track each session and get numbers from floor and then check my tier credits after they post. When my average bet is higher over a shorter period of time vs a lower average bet over a longer period of time, but the theoretical is same, I notice more TC and EC with the higher average bet session.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  17. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Were you Platinum going into this 5 day trip? Did you count your 30% bonus that you earn as Platinum?
     
  18. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Yes I was platinum going in, and had zero TCs after October reset. The 30% bonus is supposed to apply only to ECs and pointplay, not tier credits. At least that is what is still written on their site. This was a 4 night/5 day trip. My previous stay at Aria was the same length and I earned about half as many TCs. I played longer this time, but I doubt it was twice as long.
     
  19. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Yes I forgot about the 30% bonus, you are correct ECs and pointplay only. I'm gathering my stats from my last trip and post so you can compare.
     
  20. CaptainJack

    CaptainJack Low-Roller

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    Your coin-in on VP would be your points earned / (points per coin in*tier multiplier). So in this case: 9112 / 0.13 = $70k coin-in. BTW, if you want to verify this math, your host can tell you your coin-in for your visit easily enough.

    On my last trip I had 181,000 coin-in and earned 640,000 TC's. Since TC's are virtually meaningless over 250k I wouldn't worry too much about it. MLife is going to have a glut of Platinum players this year but very few Noirs. I think that's how they'd prefer it.
     
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