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Table Games Monte Carlo Roulette Incident

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by touche22, Sep 22, 2014.

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  1. touche22

    touche22 Low-Roller

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    Was just thinking back to a trip I had in July where we walked from Aria to Monte to play the wheel as we were getting slaughtered at Aria.
    Incident is this:

    Buy in for 200$ on the table and I bet 9numbers total (a section on the wheel) with bets varying from 10-40$ per #.
    I hit the first 3 spins with 20$ on ea. after ea spin I pocket 500$ and put back in play 200$. Well after the my 3rd hit in a row the pit boss comes over and quietly says something to the dealer and lo and behold they switch the ball from the large one to the smaller one. Well I'm pissed and call them out on it (pit boss, really as the dealer had no choice) but he literally won't even come over and leaves the dealer to deal with it.
    Fuck this I say and wouldn't you know it I hit 2x in a row with the ball that is clearly supposed to miss my section BUT ea hits a 40$ bet and I walk off with 3900$ and head back to Aria.
    I make sure to thank the pit boss for changing up the ball because it was getting annoying hitting my smaller bets.

    Anyway, I thought that move was shitty on their part. Thoughts?????
     
  2. mdlee3_46041

    mdlee3_46041 Low-Roller

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    I always thought they switched the ball kind of randomly anyway so it could have been a huge coincidence that they did it after you hit 3 times in a row. I'll say that it probably wasn't, but the possibility is still there. However, this incident proves that they can't completely dictate how the games play out. They can influence them to a certain degree, but can't completely determine the outcome.
     
  3. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I think you over-reacted a bit. The ball switch likely had nothing to do with you winning three spins in a row. You had almost a quarter of the table covered, so winning three in a row is not unusual. I have won more spins in a row than that at higher denominations and the casino doesn't even blink. Now, the supervisor should not have just walked away if he heard you trying to talk to him. But the ball change itself should not have been (and in fact was not) a big deal
     
  4. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    How is a ball supposed to miss your section?
     
  5. touche22

    touche22 Low-Roller

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    Good to know. I probably overreacted but I was composed. Truth is after 20 yrs of playing a lot of roulette this was the the only time I could remember it happening.
     
  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Yeah, its nothing personal. I'm just not the kind of gambler that gets worked up about much of anything. I think another member had a similar story on here that happened at Mirage a couple years ago and when I said he over-reacted, I was shouted down, lol. But I do think the supervisor should have stopped to answer your questions/concerns. and you made the right call to leave shortly thereafter. Play where you feel welcome
     
  7. Piggylane

    Piggylane Well-Known Member

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    Since you had a section on the wheel covered I guess a very skilled dealer could anticipate when to release the ball and at what speed in order to miss or hit a section. However, I bet that is a rare individual indeed.

    Speaking as a mechanical engineer/physicist I cannot see where the size or weight of the balls would affect the overall probabilities with a balanced wheel at a relatively constant speed (it's always subtly decelerating).

    However, walking away when you're ahead is always a good thing, congratulations!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Since you had a section on the wheel covered I guess a very skilled dealer could anticipate when to release the ball and at what speed in order to miss or hit a section. However, I bet that is a rare individual indeed.

    Speaking as a mechanical engineer/physicist I cannot see where the size or weight of the balls would affect the overall probabilities with a balanced wheel at a relatively constant speed (it's always subtly decelerating).

    However, walking away when you're ahead is always a good thing, congratulations!
     
  8. touche22

    touche22 Low-Roller

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    All good.

    If it meant that much to me I probably would have written about when it happened not 3 months later lol.
    However, other side of the argument: have you ever been on a table where u are losing and asked for the other ball or other deck or whatever? I have. That's why it annoyed me at the time.
     
  9. HuskerBB

    HuskerBB Low-Roller

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    Sounds like another good reason to boycott the Monte Carlo casino. With the switch to 100% 6:5 blackjack - and crappy gambling conditiions on other games there is NO reason for anyone to play there right now. Used to be one of my favorite casinos - but I urge everyone to avoid it now.
     
  10. touche22

    touche22 Low-Roller

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    The ball change (even if I request it) is to change the flow of the game to hopefully get a different outcome. I get that ea spin is in and of itself separate from previous spins and those to come, but I have always found the game develops a certain pattern of familiar ness and flow and sections can hit numerous times in a row.
    Fuck it. I'm a gambler.
     
  11. gmille58

    gmille58 Low-Roller

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    I was in a casino in Niagara Falls, ON, and they reversed the wheel/spin direction every spin, to give a random result. Only time I have seen that. Never seen them request a ball change. Plus, if the dealer knew where he was going to put the ball, dont you think that he would have his friends playing consistently there?
     
  12. touche22

    touche22 Low-Roller

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    I never suggested that the dealer could put the ball where he wanted. My only statement of claim was that they changed the ball.
     
  13. pokerbucketlist

    pokerbucketlist Low-Roller

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    If the pit boss really thinks changing the ball will magically cause it to land in a specific different section, then he or she should be fired immediately because this is nonsense. He should high five you, thank you for playing and offer to call a waitress over if he noticed your drink was low. His best bet is to keep you there so that the atrocious roulette house advantage can do its work...
     
  14. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    I dont think it had anything with you hitting your numbers. You are making chicken scratch on your wins.


    Now had you had yellow chips out there and were consistantly hitting, than they may have been sewating the bet.

    I was playing at TI one night and had beeen crushing the roulette wheel for a solid hour. The pit was literally high fiving everyone, had several cocktail waitresses there, making sure we didnt go anywhere in order to keep the money in play. We gave a little back but in the grand scheme of things what he did was excatly what I would expect and smart.
     
  15. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I'm not a hardcore roulette player but do play at times. I notice that most dealers will look away from the wheel when they spin the ball on track. I always felt this is their way of ensuring the integrity of the game and that every spin is as random as possible.

    I understand why you would get upset when the pit critter changed the ball. I bet you would've been more understanding if he didn't walk away when you questioned and came back to explain that the procedure is a common one (maybe). But by not coming back to explain only fuels the premise that he was trying to change the pattern of the spins.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  16. gpenguins67

    gpenguins67 High-Roller

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    Yeah I remember that story. I think it actually happened at TI and the guy was playing a lot bigger. It really is the gamblers superstition, especially if you are on a winning streak you don't want them to mess with it. It just seems like a dick move for the pit to do that. To the OP..... I'm glad you continued the streak and walked away up.
     
  17. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I agree with you but in that case I bet a lot of pit bosses would have to be fired. I think a lot of them do believe they can change the flow of things. Heck, its no secret casinos have employed things like coolers in the past and maybe still do.

    The fact that we know spinning the bigger ball is just as random as spinning the smaller ball isn't the only thing that matters. If the pit boss believes it changes things and does it when you're on a roll then he's being an asshole. For instance if a baccarat table was on some killer streak and everyone was winning and the pit boss decided to stop the game mid-shoe and put in new cards wouldn't you consider that an asshole move? Same if they do it in BJ, though I guess you can argue in BJ there is a quantifiable reason for it. Nonetheless, my point is the fact that it doesn't matter doesn't change the fact that the pit boss is a jerk if he thinks it matters and does it hoping he screws you up.
     
  18. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    This sounds reasonable and makes me think the ball change was scheduled.
     
  19. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    10 year suit here.

    Here is what everyone needs to know. If a game is getting hit, the only way people get fired is if the game isnt being run properly. If you hit them for $20,000....and they check the tapes and sees the ball isnt getting replaced regularly, people die. It's the business.

    So, if I have the option of covering my ass and pissing a player off....well, it's a no-brainer. Balls are supposed to be changed on roulette every 3-10 spins, and if a game is bleeding money, I am going to be on the video tape doing my job. We have to make a living too.
     
  20. Tellafriend

    Tellafriend High-Roller

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    I gamble quite a bit and quite often. I have played over a 1000 hours lifetime on a wheel at a very high limit. Its a losing game/proposition, no way around it. I have only had the house unilaterally switch balls on me once in 20 years of gambling. That was at the TI and I posted a detailed account of it about two years ago. The reason they did was obvious, I had recouped my $ and was ahead. It was short sighted on their part. I was still playing heavy, drinking with friends, and would have likely given them their money back and most of what I was carrying in my pocket. Even if I didn't, I would have considered it a good time and come back in on another trip for some drop in play to try to repeat the memory, its what gamblers do. Instead, their conduct pushed me out the door prematurely and as a result I'm wearing a beautiful Rolex to this day thanks to them.

    So, perhaps the grind joints are accustomed to screwing their players regularly as you suggest, but I don't see it where I play MGM, B, Aria, Beau, CET, MB, etc. And if they did start such crap, I wouldn't tolerate it for a second, nor should anyone else. They know they are doing it to change the action/vibe/flow or whatever you want to call it. But they aren't doing it because its random or the dealer likes the feel of the other ball. And there is something to it. Otherwise, as Kicken suggested, why else would Coolers even exist??? Again, they already have great odds even on the single zero wheels we should all typically play; so why try to slaughter us, just skin us, then we will be back. Or in the case of TI, never set foot in there again.

    As for the TI story, they KNEW what they were doing was underhanded which is why the Casino Manager apologized to me as I left with his money. It was an amateur move by inexperienced pit staff.
     
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