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MLife, screwing us again

Discussion in 'Comps' started by seviay, May 29, 2013.

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  1. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Liars, thieves, and incompetents: that's how I would describe the current program and its operators.

    I started out my trip this weekend with a whopping $10 in express comps and didn't spend a dime on them the entire trip.

    In addition to playing some $1 BP (maybe an hour) and some random slots, I played (or was rated) 18 hours of blackjack at an average bet of $45. We also charged about $480 in food, beverage, misc to the room, but I'm pretty sure that generates precisely $0 in express comps.

    Express comps balance at checkout: $0. Say what?

    I received various answers as to why that might be; among them:
    "Wow, I have no idea."
    "You were overcomped on your previous trip, so you had a negative balance."
    "You don't earn express comps for the first 4 hours at the table."
    "Express comps are different from primary comps, so that probably had something to do with it."

    Finally after getting a pit supervisor and an mlife supervisor involved, I was "awarded" a massive $13.34 for all of my efforts. You got that right, I earned $3.34 for my 18 hours of blackjack, video poker, and slot play. After spending all this time prior to leaving town, we asked them to apply my ECs and my girlfriend's...upon returning home, I got the "folio" showing that neither of our express comps had been applied. I just spent 35 minutes (over 25 minutes of which was on hold), and they're going to have to submit it to "another department" and call me back in a day or two. Also, they won't apply her express comps without her calling back, so she gets to do this all over again tonight after work -- this part I understand, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

    This is the 3rd trip in a row where some of my blackjack play (about 4 hours this trip) was completely unrated, despite checking with 2 different shift managers / pit critters and my express comps haven't generated correctly. I believe I will be joining the ranks of you who have defected and given MGM the finger
     
  2. garyz100

    garyz100 Low-Roller

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    I am with you seviay, i keep a close eye on my points and i will complain until i am blue in the face, because they keep changeing the rules. but it does get old after a while, so now i split my time with ny ny &orleans
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    it does get tiring to have to keep track of everything that you should be earning because it never works right. I think the issues are unintentional, but I really think they don't fix the issues on purpose because most people never notice and it saves them tons of money.
     
  4. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    I never notice anything awry. But, heck, do express comps really matter? I mean, most of the time MLife is more than willing to just remove everything from my bill without touching the Express Comps. So, I barely use them anyways.

    I guess if they're gonna offer them... they ought to get it right. But, MLife gives you everything comped and then they give you express comps on top of that. I'd say the express comps are gravy and that's the kind of gravy you'll never get at CET.
     
  5. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I bet this was the unintended consequence of their EC program, they didn't want it to be this way by design. That's also why they've kept trying to course correct with a string of changes to the program.

    They tried to mimic Total Rewards which is considered a hugely successful program. But where CET deducts from your RCs first, MLife decided not to do that. They touted it as a way for people to have choice over where they want to use their comp dollars, and of course for the company as a way to save money by handing over some operations to the consumer.

    But they forgot that once you give someone ownership over something they're going to act like owners! People like banking their ECs and protecting them just like normal cash. How many times have we heard on this board something to the effect of, "I expected them to comp the charges but instead they deducted them from my ECs!". Well the ECs are a comp! If they were comping you 30% before, they're just splitting it up into 25% primary and 5% ECs now.

    I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they will continue to change the program where eventually ECs will get used up first. They seem to be having such a headache accounting for them right now.

    Also CET comps back as much or even more than MGM, at least corporate-wide. In AC they publish those reinvestment rates and I think it was between 35%-40% for their casinos last year. MGM's you can try to break out from their 10-K and if that single line item is the total number its closer to 30% of gross gaming revenue. The difference is it might feel like MGM does better because they probably comp mid to high rollers better than CET while comping low rollers less than them. All those free rooms, dining credits, and show tickets to low rollers add up.
     
  6. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    However they want to break it up is fine, whether it's 20% primary and 10% express comps or 25/5, whatever. The problem I have is where it is inconsistently applied and/or so convoluted that the people who work for them don't/can't even understand it. What I know is that my average bet size has continued to increase over the years and my comp level seems to have stayed the same or decreased (with the exception of a few favors from a friend's host, who has definitely overcomped me in the past).

    I don't think it's too much to ask to have a system that is simple, logical, and applied in an even and consistent manner. We shouldn't have to badger pit bosses, hosts, or MLife desk attendants just to get what we are "entitled" to for our play. That isn't fun for anyone.
     
  7. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I usually try to check my EC online or at the mlife desk to get an idea if I am getting comped or not. That way it is not a surprise when it is time to checkout.
     
    First Trip 2017
  8. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    The issue at hand is the rise of the educated consumer. It goes across all facets of life in the US.

    For example, you used to go into a car dealer with very little information, and you negotiated from a position of weakness to get to the price of your new car. Now you go in with all the information you need to get the best possible deal. You can look across the entire economy and see the same thing.

    Vegas has been slow to respond to the new consumer. The old comp system (which mostly still exists) is a closed door, with vague or no information. The few rules that do exist are not consistently applied. People don't like this -- they want to know that they are getting what they are supposed to get. There are two parts to the problem...some people not getting what they should and some people getting more. People see those people getting more and feel like they should get the same.

    What they are eventually going to have to come to is a hard and fast rule...not a comp, but a rebate of a certain percent of your theo. It's going to have to be open and visible to the player, and there's going to have to be accountability in the system. This is inevitable. The only question is how long the casinos will avoid this obvious solution to player unhappiness.

    Consumers today want to be in charge of their own transactions. They want all the information so that they can make decisions. Once the casinos establish hard and fast rules that are available for everyone to see, the consumers will make their decisions. They may choose not to play, but they're going to do that anyway if they think they are getting screwed.

    This isn't going to happen in the immediate future -- there are still enough people who don't care to understand the system where it's profitable for the casinos to hide the info. Eventually it won't be, and then they'll change.
     
  9. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Yeah, I checked it every day/night. I left out the part of the story where I talked to a couple pit bosses every day who either offered to help (unsuccessfully, unfortunately) or couldn't offer an explanation other than to say maybe the system hadn't updated yet. I got the sense that some of them are almost as frustrated with the system as we are
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  10. engicedave

    engicedave VIP Whale

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    He's not talking about MGM using his EC's, he's talking about MGM not awarding him ANY EC's for his play.
    They stiffed him.
    This was what I was complaining about in the other thread saying I do not trust the MLife system because it stiffed me, and I had to email back and forth to get some EC's, but not an amount that seems right for my play, and your response was that I am supposed to keep a pen and logbook and write down everything....putting the responsibility of receiving proper comps on me! I'm the guest! You're not supposed to make things harder on me and make me have to fight you for what you say you're going to award me for my play.
     
  11. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    I am lucky - never had a problem with tier credits or ECs, but I did start tracking a little better. I have always made sure that every time I leave a table I confirm time and avg bet - I learned this lesson years ago and is second nature for me. I also check once a day for my "trip to date" hours and avg bet - always have out of curiosity and pacing, not doubt. But based on all threads on VMB, this last trip I took a screen shot (iphone app) of my Mlife account stats at start of trip and every morning.

    I agree I should not have to... but this was a simple and unintrusive way of validating.

    The funny thing is that I earned FAR more tier credits this last trip than I should have. ECs seemed correct. http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93056
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Dude relax! First of all I was replying to undathesea's post about how he doesn't need his ECs because everything gets comped anyway. I was saying that was probably an unintended consequence MLife didn't plan. It had nothing to do with the OP's post. sevjay got reamed, I understand that.

    Second, I never said anything about a pen and a logbook. You said that. I said as a machine player you could tell exactly what you should be getting by keeping tabs on your session points that are shown right on the machine. I didn't say you are SUPPOSED to do that, I said you COULD do that. Its a free option you have, take it or leave it. You can continue complaining about MLife's shoddy system without knowing what you should really be getting (just that it "seems" off) or you can continue complaining about it while knowing exactly what you should be getting. The choice is yours.
     
  13. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Because of prior trip snafus, I am the same way. First night of this trip, I sat down, gave the pit boss my card, he asked me where I lived and how to pronounce my last name, and said welcome back, etc. 4 hours later, on the shift change, the new pit boss came around and said "does no one have a card to be rated on?" I guffawed, thinking she was joking. She said no one was in the system and looked terrified by my expression. I calmly explained to her what had happened, how long I had been there, and all of that; she conferred with the dealer who told her I was betting around $50 average, and had spread up to $150 at times. She apologized and said they had been having some problems with the system, but that she would "back me up" in the system to reflect the full time of play. I played a little longer, talked to her to confirm that she had me properly in the computer and rated, and she did, so I went to bed.

    Next day, when I sat down to play, I asked another pit boss who recognized me from past trips, and she said she showed no play from me for that prior session. She called her supervisor over, and of course he doesn't know me from Adam, so he said there isn't a lot he could do, but he would try to enter extra play for me on to the new session, but he couldn't rate me at the $50 because I was only playing $25 on that table when he came over.

    The bottom line is I did everything that the pit bosses, MLife counter, and people on this board have instructed me to do, and it still didn't work. There was literally nothing I could have done in this instance to get credit for my play -- this fact was confirmed by the last 5 pit critters that I talked to about the issue. It's frustrating enough for it to happen once, but for it to happen repeatedly despite my best efforts is maddening.

    I didn't mean to start any squabbling. I think we can all unite in agreement that something within their system needs to be fixed!
     
  14. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Wow

    I just wanted to update this situation...I'm pretty shocked. After spending all that time on the phone and being pretty rude to the poor girl, I have some good news (in my defense, she wasn't listening to anything I was saying and was giving stock responses to my questions).

    She said she handed my issue off to her supervisor and they would call me back within a day or two, which would have put them calling me back this past Thursday or Friday. I never received a call, but when I logged back into my account yesterday, my tier credits were revised upward by about 14k, and magically my express comps went from $13.xx to $116.xx

    I've never received an explanation for this, but I'll take it. That's certainly more ECs than I should have generated this past trip, but perhaps they noticed how many times they had been shortchanging me in the past?

    "Just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this...and TOTALLY redeem yourself." Now I'm going to feel slightly bad for snubbing them on my next trip!
     
  15. garyz100

    garyz100 Low-Roller

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    make sure you burn those comps up on your next trip
     
  16. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    Oh, I don't want to wait for them to change their mind (or have their system "mess up" again) on this one. I already had them applied to my bill from this past stay. Pow!
     
  17. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    Its interesting what is going on with CET and Mlife. I took one year off from giving them any "tracked play", instead using the players cards of the buddies I share rooms with in vegas. It worked out pretty nicely as they have been getting reasonable offers and I'm still getting the same crap I was before. This past trip I did start playing back on my own card, and for hours and hours of $2 VP at Bally's and Aria I generated about $20 in comps in each system. Flamingo did comp me $155 on loss, but from an EC perspective it was about $20. That is a total joke given the horrible paytables at CET.

    I am not unhappy with my comp result however, as I felt zero pressure to play in a particular venue and most certainly saved $1,000's by playing lower than I had in the days when I was attempting to make sure i covered a comp.

    In the end, the combination of worsening comps and degraded paytables is raising the cost of gambling. My sweet spot used to be a higher level of play with higher comps, now its a lower level of play with lower comps. I am playing less due to the increased cost. This is a good answer for me, even though I "getting" less. It is a bad answer for the casino because they are losing far more in gaming win than they are saving in reduced comps.

    So thank you dbags, I appreciate your forcing me to self-rehab along with my self-comping!!!

    Cheers Murren and Loveman, you fools. :beer:
     
  18. Blondie76

    Blondie76 Low-Roller

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    That is sweet and satisfying that you have all those points and ECs added to your account. But I think it is still unprofessional of them to not have given you the courtesy of the call back as promised. Is there any way you could have missed their calling you back?
     
  19. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    No chance of a missed call. My phone number has been the same with them for 10 years, and it is my cell phone, which I always have with me. I have no missed calls and no voicemails...and I pay my bills on time, so I haven't ever been without service :)

    By the way, I checked my account today, and my tier credits are up another 5k or so, and it appears as though the express comps have been applied to my bill (via credit to my credit card, in this case). Though I find it strange -- and unprofessional as you point out -- at this point, I would rather have $100 in express comps than a phone call from them.
     
  20. DK528

    DK528 Low-Roller

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    I also had an unpleasant experience my last trip.

    Last went to LV in July 2012. After that trip, had about $404 in express comps. When I got to LV in April, started with that $404 balance and increased from there. Was up around $450 one night and the next morning, mysteriously went down to $370.

    No one could explain it. No one could confirm that I had $404 after my July trip. No one could confirm that I started my trip at $404. It was incredibly frustrating for me as I saw those numbers for days and all of the sudden, it decreased. And there was nothing I could do.
     
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