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Table Games misdeal in baccarat?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by avg35, Oct 28, 2014.

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  1. avg35

    avg35 Tourist

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    I was recently playing baccarat in the high limit room at SLS with a friend. The dealer had made a mistake in dealing the hand. Here's how it went down: My friend and I each had $1000 on player. The cards were dealt A, 10 for player, and 10, 4 for dealer. we draw a card for player and get a 2...for a total of 3. The dealer draws another card and gets a 6...for a total of 0. At this point we thought we won a great hand and were giving each other high fives, even the dealer was excited for us as we were tipping very well. Then the pit boss comes over and says it was a misdeal as the dealer wasn't supposed to deal that last card. (We were pretty new at baccarat and didnt know the rules that well) but the pit boss was right. We had even been paid out at this point, but didn't take the money yet. pretty much the dealer said the card should not have been drawn, and it was a loss for us. That was a $2000 swing, not only did we not win, they took our bet as well. What do you guys think about this situation. Should we have made a big deal about it, at the very least called it a misdrawn hand and have no wins or losses? Has this happened to anyone before? I'd like to know in case this happens again, I've read on this forum that the dealers at SLS aren't trained that well yet.
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    It stinks, but the correct result was reached. Think about it this way: if you had bet the banker (not the dealer??), you would have been thrilled with that correct ruling.
     
  3. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    This is a tricky one, and I have seen it go both ways. In general, if there is a misdeal which favors the player and it is caught right away, the house will ask you to return the money. If it is a smallish bet, say under $100, the pit will often let the player keep the erroneous payout as a goodwill gesture. If the bet is large--your hand represented a $4000 swing for the house--they will nearly always ask you to return the winnings. You MIGHT have an argument to keep your original bet, but in this case it would have been a weak one. If you made an enormous fuss about it, they might have let you keep your original stake, but this may well have hurt you in other ways down the line. Certainly you could have asked for and would have received a new shoe after the misdeal. Did you just continue playing, ask for a new shoe, or storm off in a huff? How did they treat you as play continued (if it did?)

    Of course, if a misdeal occurred which favored the house and you corrected it, the house will reverse the error and give you your money. I suppose it is tough to expect that they wouldn't want to do the same.

    These types of errors occur more frequently than you might expect--more often they involve incorrect payouts rather than actual misdeals. If something like this occurs, I immediately scoop the chips into my stack and say nothing. Once the chips are in your pile the dealer will almost never call the pit over to reverse an incorrect payout, while they sometimes do if the chips are still on the layout as yours were. If the pit oversees the error--it will be reversed no matter what you do like it was in your case.

    Some may say it is unethical to collect a payout received in error, but I doubt the casino is worried about the ethics of collecting a bet in error which the player failed to notice. If they pay it, I'll take it.
     
  4. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Should have been ruled a misdeal and a push. You shouldn't have gotten the win, but you shouldnt have lost your original bet either.

    I consider a misdeal to "void the play" just like in slots where "Any machine malfunction voids play".
     
  5. Ty

    Ty ?

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    What am I missing? The Banker had a four, the player's third card was 2. Banker should draw a third card. Pit boss was wrong. (?)
     
    Christmas Trip. Sam's Town & MSS
  6. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    It depends on the pit boss in my experience. I've had the dealer flip the cards immediately and got my money back when I loss and vice versa where the pit boss didn't give my money back.

    I'm with demon all misdeals should be ruled void play like a slot machine. I remember kickin had a tr where the dealer hit instead of staying and they took his money.

    I wonder if the pitboss would let you win on the misdeal if you bet banker or would he call it a push due to a misdeal. If so it's win win for casino
     
  7. avg35

    avg35 Tourist

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    It was the 2nd to last hand in the shoe. We continued playing many shoes after the incident. We were up and having a great time with the dealer and pit boss, as the high limit room was pretty empty and it was like 3am in the morning. I think the pit boss was definitely sentimental about the whole situation and even shook her head at the dealer and acknowledged that shouldn't be happening in a high limit room, we even joked about it many times thoughout the night. at the end of our session she did have my avg bet a little higher which was a nice gesture. That is the main reason why we didn't make a big deal of it. I didn't want the dealer or pit boss to get any heat for it, I was just interested in what my rights were. Because I usually play a lot of blackjack, and if a misdeal happens its a push at the very worst, and sometimes even a pay out of our bets. But when i play blackjack that's usually $200 a hand, not $2000 as it was in this case. on a side topic, if i did feel like a was wronged and the pit boss says otherwise, what is my recourse? I feel like whatever the pitboss says is the law and we are a little helpless in what we can do.
     
  8. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Actually, I think you're right. I misread the OP.
     
  9. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    exactly.

    2 and 3 only stop on a 5.

    not on a 4. only A stops on a 4.

    you were screwed.

    this is why you never play a gambling game without knowing the rules.

    you'll always end up getting shafted somehow.

    however, in a situation like this where it really was a misdeal,

    the hand stands where it would have stopped and you would lose.

    the next hand would be dealt open (no bets)

    starting with the card that was pulled incorrectly.

    that way it doesn't change the shoe.
     
  10. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    The SLS owes you a couple grand.
     
  11. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    "this is why you never play a gambling game without knowing the rules."
    So very, very true
     
  12. avg35

    avg35 Tourist

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    Sorry i forgot the exact cards involved. We did check the rules card at the table and the banker should not have gotten a third card but did and that reduced the bankers hand to 0....that I did remember clearly.
     
  13. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    I'm with UKFanatic.
    It's is always better to have the correct result.
    However, I would NOT correct them if the mistake is in my favor, but I always correct them when the mistake is in the house's favor.
    Is that being slimy?
     
  14. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    I do the same.

    This is what i call being human.

    My friend was watching me play bacc. The dealer miacounted the points. The dealer was paying me out then my stupid friend pointed it out to the dealer.
     
  15. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    The worst part is you can't say anything because you don't want to look like you are trying to cheat, but you want to kick your friend hard in the shin under the table.
     
  16. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I wouldn't say slimy. Personally, I have gone both ways. I recall once correcting a dealer at BJ that was accidentally paying me on a losing hand. But I also know I have been overpaid on craps payouts and kept my mouth shut
     
  17. dutchvelvet

    dutchvelvet VIP Whale

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    Interesting example. Assuming you got your original cards wrong in the OP and the dealer in fact did take a card improperly, it reminds me most of the situation when a dealer takes an improper blackjack hit. For example, three players stand on 19, Dealer flips up a 18, then takes an improper hit and receives a 3 for 21. In that scenario, the floor will pay out the hand based upon what he dealer should have had (18) instead of what they received due to the improper hit (21). This seems like the same thing, so I don't disagree with the casino's result. I presume they paid out (or would have paid out) anyone betting banker that hand.
     
  18. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    Not being slimy at all. I'm sure there are instances where the player loses incorrectly, and it is not caught.

    I remember a long time ago when I first played Pai Gow Poker and learning (although it's an easy game, this was when I first got into any gaming at all), the dealer was showing me how I lost. I just took it for what it was thinking she must be right, and I just didn't understand. I learned the game within a few hands and realized that I had actually won my top hand, and she somehow misread it. I don't know how she did that being that it was only two cards. It was a $20 learning experience, the difference between the $10 I lost and the $10 I would have won.

    Another time I was watching somebody play 3-Card Poker. The player had a straight. The dealer had a higher straight. Since he had lost, the dealer said that he didn't get the ante bonus payout. I told him the player gets the ante bonus regardless of winning the hand or not. The dealer called the floor person over, and the floor person said that it does not pay regardless of how much I argued. When the floor person left for the day, I told the next floor person on-duty who also said that it does not pay, but he said he would call upstairs. He confirmed that I was correct. Unfortunately, the player who did not get the payout had left already. The next day I saw the original floor person, and told him that an ante bonus gets paid regardless of losing the hand to the house. His reply was that they made it that way recently. I don't know if I was right or not, but I told him that it is a Shufflemaster-registered game through the NGC, and the rules just can't be changed by the casino.
     
  19. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    must have been 5 instead of 4 on bank. even the greenest dealer would never mistakenly draw on 6 or 7 on bank.

    in that case, you should have lost so they acted correctly in paying the hand as it was dealt.

    but they should have dealt the next hand using the card that was exposed.

    did that happen or did they muck that card and deal a fresh hand?
     
  20. avg35

    avg35 Tourist

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    They used the same card for the next hand but did not let anyone play the hand. It ended up being the last hand of the shoe anyways.
     
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