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Mine's bigger ... a.k.a. the golfer's lie (and not the kind on the ground)

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by ken2v, Jun 4, 2015.

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  1. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    210 yards. That is the average driving distance (2014 figure, USGA and other sources) of a male recreational golfer. This isn't new, we've tossed it around here a few times in the past. It's just nice to see the latest data continue to shine the light on the biggest lie to come out since "the check is in the mail."

    A good, strong male recreational golfer will be at about mid-pack LPGA distance -- 250 yards. (Brittany Lincicome leads that tour at 271 yards off a 105-mph swing. And of course she also finds the middle of the club face so she gets max efficiency = ball speed = smash factor.)

    White tees might be too much for most guys.

    BTW: Women = 156 yards.
     
  2. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Don claims 200 yards on a good day, but of course he's old. My last golf outing? 220 yards- 170 forward and 50 to the right.
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    The problem is courses don't have enough different tee selections.

    The forwards are more where avg men should play and they need real forwards at under 5k yards for the women.
     
  4. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    That's it, shifter. Most men should be playing 6,000 or sub and definitely give women good upper/mid-4000-yard options. (And real tees, not something mown flat at the head of the fairway.)

    But sadly, however many lily pads are offered, there still are too many who think they're the real-deal bullfrog and bound too far back. Hell, you could color the markers of the 5800-yard tees black and as long as those guys can see other tees, they'll move to them. Too many can be a problem, too. To me it's the tees in the blue realm that are the culprit. That never-never land of 6500-6700. There really aren't that many small-set/big-ego guys who'll grab the tips but they will see out "blue," so let's just set something at 6,100 or so, the tips, two forward, and be done with it. Just because a course has six options doesn't mean all six need to be set every day.

    A couple weeks back our threesome was joined by a twosome at Rancho and were on the heels of the twosome in front of us the entire time. Both could barely cover from the tees they were using. Imbeciles.
     
  5. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    There were some good swing captures when I watched last night's rebroadcast of the Memorial. One showed a 116-mph swing that went 276 yards, which is about what you'd expect a solid 106-107 mph swing to produce. The guy necked the shot and it cost him 30 yards.
     
  6. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    Q - Why is the sport named golf?

    A - Because "Ah, f..k" was already taken.
     
  7. joespoolhall

    joespoolhall Low-Roller

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    Years ago a few courses in LV would ask for a Ghin card if you wanted to play longer than the whites. We picked up a fourth at the Oasis one time and he had to show the starter his card to play the blues. A buddy was playing Primm Valley and mentioned to the greeter he planned to play the blues. He didn't have a card so the greeter watched him on the range before allowing it. These are the only times I heard of this and that was long ago. When I played a lot, I couldn't count the number of times I heard how long a person hit only to play with them and have them outhit me by 10-15 yards! Tee choice is an age old problem that will always exist. I'm sure there have been a few converts, but for most the campaign has fallen on deaf ears.

    Good Luck! Ric at Joes
     
  8. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Went out for nine this afternoon, the usual Friday with the boys at La Purisima. Pulled out a driver I got about six months back, still in wrapper and unhit. I killed it. Drives in place I'd not been before (in a good way). Shot 40 with a double. Got it home and put it against a few of my other gamers and it's an inch shorter. Makes sense. Me likey.
     
  9. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    Interesting. I don't feel so bad now. I can hit mine 230 straight (at least a good portion), much farther if I don't care what direction it is going in.
    2 of my playing partners consistently hit it 20-30 yards longer then me (they are 10 years younger). Makes me feel like I was short hitter.

    We always play the shortest tees we can find, took me years to convince my regular playing partners it wasn't an insult on their manhood to not play the back tees. At one point they would play the back tees, and I would just wonder up to the front tees and hit off them.

    Of course on way to many courses the 'front' tees are 5-10 yards in front of the back tees. Some of those long holes they really need to be 30-40 yards further up.

    There was a country club I played in Michigan once where the starter wouldn't let you play the back the tees unless you were a known member that could handle them. They marked your bag with a ribbon if you could play the back tees. At the time I thought that was crazy. Now I think it is a great idea! Some courses I spend more time waiting for the log jam in front of us than I do playing.
     
  10. joespoolhall

    joespoolhall Low-Roller

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    Too many players forget that the reason to be out there is to have fun. Of course peer pressure comes into play also and then there is the weekly PGA tournament that shows most of them hitting it 300. Everyone thinks they're supposed hit 30 yards further than they do. We have a short muni up here that most golfers look down on because of it's length. A few years back I started playing it from time to time because it was easy for a single to get out. Well I found myself going there every time I played alone. It was easy to get on AND I met some of the nicest golfers ever. Most were either retirees or fairly new players and just enjoyed getting out. Many times they didn't even keep score, especially the newbies. It really brought home the idea of playing to enjoy yourself instead of trying to measure up. Some of my most enjoyable rounds since didn't include a scorecard.

    Good Luck!
    Ric at Joes
     
  11. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Golf -- like any other diversion -- needs to be fun. If it's not fun, why do it? That doesn't mean you need to avoid comparatives or relatives (score/performance) just so long as hitting some standard doesn't impact the fun. To me its about the ever-changing challenge, the scenery and the folks I'm with.

    I typically don't keep score along the way. It's easy enough to recreate it at the end. Of course, the heartless jackals I call my golf mates relish telling me exactly what I've done if I've had a truly successful front, and we know how that usually ends ...

    As for the yardage thing, there's only so much a course can -- and more critically will -- do on getting guys on the correct tees. Now if a place effectively patrols pace then some of the contributors will logically work themselves out. And it's all far easier to police at a private club. When you get a company like American Golf Corp running a joint, you're doomed. The mission statement at AG Crap courses is getting as many players off the first tee as possible, and to hell if only some of them actually get to 18.

    P.S. I measured the Bridgestone driver, it is 1/2" shorter than my others. And it's the last year of a 2011 model release. So much for twice-a-year releases TaylorMade!! lol
     
  12. newmans

    newmans VIP Whale

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    I love seeing that the average drive for a recreational woman is only 156 yards. It makes me feel less concerned about getting it out there 200-225 yards. For me, I'd give up a bit of distance off the tee to be on the fairway. I'm trying to play smarter with better course management. I'll often hit a 5 wood off the tee to get out 170 - 180 yards and straight.

    I'm not so smart in a tournament on a longest drive hole. I practically come out of my shoes and seperate my shoulder.......we all know how that drive ends up.
     
  13. M_ILIS

    M_ILIS High-Roller

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    I'll chime in with the other side of this debate. Although I'm not an elite player by any means (currently 10.7 index), I have the distance to handle 7,000 yard courses without much problem, especially if I'm hitting it well. I also prefer to challenge myself as much as possible on the course, so I prefer playing as far back as I can. Now, two things can happen – I can struggle and look like I shouldn't be playing the tips, or I can play well and enjoy my time to the fullest. Playing from forward tees simply isn't as satisfying to me. Also, anything under 6,500 yards – unless the course is super wide/forgiving – probably means driver is taken out of my hands except for maybe a few holes. Not to mention I'm nearly as erratic with a long iron, hybrid or 3-wood off the tee as I am my driver.

    So I don't really know where I fit in with this whole argument. I really would like to think that even if I'm not playing well, I'm always aware of pace of play and which tee I hit from doesn’t really make a huge impact on how long I take out there. But there’s such a perception that what’s causing slow play is people playing from the wrong tees, I don’t want to be “that guy.”
     
  14. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    If you can hit a ton, and you aren't spending more time than you should looking for the ones that get away, you aren't playing from the wrong tee. But what about the guys you are playing with?
     
  15. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I don't know that it's the other side nor a debate. The statements throughout are ability-keyed. You do hit a pretty deep ball, Mark, so the usual-blue 6500 and change makes sense. Teeing ground in and of itself doesn't dictate pace, and plenty of slugs hang around the fronts.
     
  16. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    I find the right distance for me is about 6300 yards. That distance usually means 120 to 170 yd approach shots, based on a 220-240 average drive (on a good day).

    I sometimes play with better golfers that want to play from 6500 - 6700 and will play from these distances just to play the same tees. I don't think it takes me any longer to play from these distances and it doesn't affect my score much, but it's not as enjoyable because my approach shots are too long (170. - 210 yd) to consistently hit greens.
     
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  17. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    I agree. I don't think the "debate" is about those like M_ILIS and Shifter who are able to hit the ball a ton, it is about the multitude of others who are playing the back tees without the ability to hit it far, or the back tee length makes every Par 4 play like a Par 5, and then that locks up the course due to slow play, etc. Mark, you have every right to play the tees that suit your length since you hit the ball so well.
     
  18. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    And I don't know that shifter plays the true tips everywhere he goes, and that boy can really move the rock, as you know.

    I do want to say that more shots IS longer. How can it not be? If average guys are a block or two too far back they are hitting even fewer GIR than the rather paltry amount they hit anyway and they likely will be in worse spots hitting that second, third or fourth shot to the green (whatever is one more than reg and excluding however many it is having gone yard). More bunkers? More bad bunker shots and more bunkers needing raking. Short game? Longer chips and pitches from more short-sided leaves. It adds up.

    One of the cool things about playing with the two Ms, VBJ and shifter ... they play as quickly as I do. :nworthy:
     
  19. Packer

    Packer VIP Whale

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    For me I have stopped playing from tees that are 7000-7300 yards. The only reason is I hate using my 3 wood every single 2nd shot. I also have found 6400 is too close. 6500 t0 6900 for me... Shadow however I play the 7100 tees as it is desert golf and the ball flies further and rolls a lot further. My avg drive is 250-270 with roll. My irons for some reason go a lot further than the friends im playing with. 8 iron 165-170, 4 iron 210 and so on...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    That's some good swing speed, 100-105 mph. For all the lies in the game, that's rare territory for a recreational player. I clock anywhere between 98 and 107 in recent years. I'd take 100 and centered any day over a constant 107 that is inconsistently all over the face. I know I had some new-car smell going on with that Bridgestone I unwrapped on Friday, but seeing the impact pattern -- I love that about a new club -- and seeing how many drives got where I rarely get at La Purisima, that half-inch off the shaft is a thing of beauty. Better yet was bringing the traj down since it blows like a mutha here.

    Yardage is relative. Tacking on yardage often doesn't automatically make a course harder and certainly not better. Hazards, bunkers, angles all need to be positioned in relation to the various teeing grounds. A good test of whether one is playing a course too long or too short is where well-hit drives (including other than drivers, if demanded) are landing relative to these intended impediments.

    Interesting numbers in that screen capture. A couple things stand out. First, something is off because his ball speed slightly exceeds the physical limits of a conforming club. Regardless, he is dead-on efficient/hitting the screws. Second, we'd all crater with such a low launch angle. (OK, not shifter and M might be there, too.)
     
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