Discussion in 'Comps' started by Naturaleight, Sep 28, 2012.
What level of play do hosts expect when comping a Skyloft for several nights?
1000 avg bet 4 hours a day for a 1br at RFB. About 1500 for a regular 2br.
what about for slot players?
Is it really worth that? One bet worth and you can simply pay for the room.
It's not worth that, but if you are playing at that level anyway...
None of the comps are worth the play, that's why they can afford to give them. That's why they say 'don't chase comps'. You'll spend more than just buying it.
True. My point was more in the line of shouldn't they take the avg. bet down to at least half that for that kind of room. I would think 1K + per hand should get something better considering you can buy the room with one hand worth.
Well, it probably has as much [if not more] to do with supply & demand - sure, anyone gambling $500,$1000 or more per hand can easily afford to pay for whatever room they want - but where the threshold for the comp values likely comes in is that the better rooms & suites are essentially a limited commodity - if you gave out skylofts to everyone who bet a couple hundred bucks a hand just because they could afford to pay for them, you'd need a hotel full of skylofts on busy weekends that would then sit mostly empty Sun->Thur - so I'd argue there's a scarcity factor that goes into it. Likewise, at many places you can find yourself "bumped up" above your normal level if it's really slow, or below it if it's really busy.
And also, as others have mentioned, once you get to the $1000+/hand level, most of the people playing that level aren't doing it for the comps, you evolve to that level over time & the comps are just part of the territory, but their real value is irrelevant to why you're gambling- virtually noone is betting $1000/hand just to get a free Skyloft, and then says "well, if I only bet $2000 I could get a villa!" Or conversely, "they won't give me the mansion, so I'm gonna turn down the free skyloft & book a suite at Mandarin Oriental & pay rack instead..."
$1000 a hand for 4 hrs a day...those are the official requirements.
But lets say you're staying during the week. Will hosts grant you any lee-way, especially if you have high losses?
Shifter will probably know best - I'm still relatively new to how MGM does things - but I would think it's possible - I know I always used to hear the requirements for a fairway villa at Wynn were a $200-300K minimum line, but I was able to get an upper-level fairway villa twice midweek with only a $60K line, so I guess it depends how strictly MGM sticks to their stated minimums.
Of course, if you really want a skyloft, you could always just book one yourself rack & then if you wind up playing enough I'm sure they'll comp it off on the backend anyway - and even if you don't, They'll still probably take at least a couple of nights off on the back end equal to however much in comps you deserve based upon what you did play.
I'd guess it's how much you want to stay in a skyloft vs. how confident you are that you would play to a level to merit a comped skyloft vs. how important it is to you to have a guaranteed comp. It would be foolish to play more than you're comfortable just to get a free skyloft - as has already been discussed in this thread, if you're even considering the possibility of a skyloft comp I'm sure you can afford it so why not just book it and play however much or little you want & just worry about the comp on the back end? I realize you may just be curious if you could get one for your level of play or not and are probably fine with getting a guaranteed full comp on a non-skyloft suite, but I'm just brainstorming ideas & scenarios.
Another scenario is, can you ask a host for two nights free, one night paid or a reduced/casino rate on a skyloft or something like that if your play doesn't hit the threshold? Personally, I've never worried enough about what suite I was getting to have tried anything like that [I'm just happy as long as I get a suite with a dining area/table in it] - last trip to Aria I asked if there was a chance I could get a sky villa since it was midweek, got a maybe that ultimately turned into a no - but I'd imagine that if it had been important enough to me, I could've worked something out where I booked one rack & worked out how much of it got comped on the back end [assuming they had one available] - which in the case of the skylofts, which are much more plentiful and more routinely booked by non-gamblers than the sky villas, I'd imagine isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Not really because that's what it costs them in comps so if you don't play to that level you're going to be overcomped and that's going to be bad for them.
See, this is where the rigidity of the way they do things these days & how they give the hosts practically zero flexibility anymore really sucks IMO - not too long ago, if you were there during a slow time, it would've been no problem to get a bump above what you'd normally get if it was available, just to make the player happy.
I think that's a lot more likely to happen for a regular than a first time player.
If it's an issue, I like the suggestion to pay for the room yourself. If you play a lot, even if they don't comp the rooms all the comps you earn will go somewhere...food, shows, whatever. When you have nothing up front to play through, the other comps add up quick.
I'd think in that scenario, they'd probably just comp off however much of the total combined bill [skyloft/F&B/etc.] they could with whatever comps his theo for the trip generated - so if his bill totaled, let's say $3750 & his play generated $2400 in total [primary + express] comps [purely hypothetical numbers], I'd think he'd get $2400 comped off on the back-end & left with a balance of $1350 to pay EOT. If somehow his comps managed to equal or exceed his bill, and/or he got the skyloft at the lowest possible rack rate & kept his F&B charges reasonable, presumably he could get the whole stay in a Skyloft comped off EOT without ever hitting $1000/hand for 4 hours, right?
Shifter, you're the expert on how MGM crunches their numbers, what are your thoughts? Would there be any internal accounting problem with them doing that, or as long as his theo wound up high enough to cover the trip it wouldn't it wind up getting picked up EOT anyway, regardless of what the actual amount per hand average really was? And what about going in on an upfront - is it really a strictly per hand minimum, or really more of a theo minimum that they're looking for [i.e. if he played $500/hand 8 hours a day, isn't that just as good as $1000/hand 4 hours a day?]
That's true in a literal sense, but to get it comped you need to be theoretically losing enough each day to cover the cost of the room and make a profit for the casino. You need to bet a lot of money to be considered likely to lose $1,500 a day.
When comping a room does the casino really weigh heavily whether your play is covering the cost of the room?
I mean a hotel room is a fixed cost. The room doesn't cost them anything anyway. And they sure as hell aren't making anything if it's vacant.
They have a value in comps assigned to that room. If it's comped up front, you will get no other comps other than express comps until you've played through enough to cover your initial offer.
This is the one thing in the comp world that I'm absolutely sure of.
yes, your play has to cover the room. in the old days they gave away the hotel to bring people to the casino. nowadays in the corporate world, they want both the hotel and the casino to be profitable. so the hotel "charges" the casino $X for a room and the casino has to pay for that with money generated. so unless you're playing enough to pay for the comp value on the room, you're overcomped and the casino is "losing money". that's bad for your host and bad for his boss, so it won't happen much. it can occasionally happen when you normally play higher, but have a low playing trip for whatever reason, but if you normally play at $500 avg, they're not going to throw you in a $1500/night room just because it's vacant.
what you can get a host to do for you on slow weeks is get you into a suite that your play will cover comp-wise, but just is hard to get because it's generally reserved for higher CL players. for example, the bigger suites in the Skylofts, the Mansion, the Fairway Villas at Wynn, etc. the comp value on those rooms isn't terribly high, but they're generally reserved for 100k-500k+ players. but if it's really slow and they're vacant, a host can sometimes squeeze you into one at a lower CL. but that's only because he knows your play will cover the actual comp value of the room anyway. he's not going to put a $500 avg bettor in one of those just because it's vacant.
they actually like to have vacant rooms because there's tons of bigger players that really do fly in on a whim and want their big suite at the last minute. they can't kick you out once you're there, so they'd rather keep it vacant just in case some guy with a 1M+ CL calls up and wants to come in. it really does happen that often.
What are the comp value of those rooms?
$1500-3000 and up per night. it's not too hard to do 5-8k theo per day, which gives you've enough comps for those rooms, but they generally require 100-200k lines and up also. those are the types of strings that can be pulled on off weeks.
This is gonna make me sound like a real newb, but what does theo per day mean? I've heard/seen a lot of people use it on here.
Separate names with a comma.