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Match Play Coupons Are Becoming Extinct

Discussion in 'Coupon Swap' started by Ben Jammin, Dec 8, 2012.

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  1. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Got my 2013 ACG and even less match plays this year. Casinos don't like to lose, and match plays are about the only way to gain an advantage other than card counting and cheating.

    Coupon Abuse as it is called by the casinos is multiple usage by someone or a group on a "coupon run". I saw a group of 5 or 6 guys come in to the East Side Cannery, each with their $10 match play. The each played one pass on the Craps table and they left. I'll assume they were to split up the take after it was all said and done. They were off to the next casino. The pit boss was very attentive to this.

    Hence, no more match plays there.

    So, if you're thinking about collecting up a bunch of match plays and using them repeatedly, don't. You'll just ruin it for the rest of us casual users.

    Some bullet heads will squirm and disagree but the idea of a match play is to get the player in the door and then deplete them of their bankroll. Like I said, casinos hate to lose.

    So, for those who just can't at least be discreet and don't use them on the same shift with the same dealers and pit bosses on duty, and don't go in with a hand full of match plays and just hit and run. Hang out for a while and lay low.

    Only a few years ago there were some really good ones, they're gone.

    Thanks to some folks that got their hands on a few hundred left over books from another well known source and abused the hell out of them to the tune of thousands of dollars. The casinos caught wind of that, and started scrutinizing their usage, so now that publication has none. Not even one.

    Need I say more?
     
  2. Grasp

    Grasp Low-Roller

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    Good post. The LVA's MRB does still have a MP, but they have been virtually eliminated and switched to FP coupons.

    As previously discussed in the 2013 ACG thread, the 2013 ACG actually has slightly higher gambling EV for someone who is not a "new member". Also interesting is that the drop in EV from 2011 to 2012 was almost entirely due to the loss of the (2) $25MPs at Sahara and Westin. I find it hard to blame the ACG in those cases.

    The value is still there, but you are correct, a shift in techniques is occurring due to abuse. I'm actually in favor of almost all coupons requiring redemption at the slot club. It certainly takes a little more man power and is potentially more of a pain for the coupon user. However, they can then all be tracked so that the coupon rules are followed. The Pit Critters won't have to scrutinize every coupon to see if it is a fake. And most importantly for the casinos, they can use the tracking to see if the coupons are actually accomplishing their marketing goals. Are people simply using the coupon and leaving? How many new players join b/c of the coupon? This should lead to better and potentially more creative options for the players.
     
  3. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    MP coupons are hard to abuse if the casino follows this simple protocol. Player submits coupon at the players club desk. Desk verifies ID. Desk marks coupon as "used" in the players account. Desk gives player actual coupon to use at the table. Pretty simple to do, and eliminates any double dipping (triple/quadruple/100x dipping etc)

    Many casinos handle MP coupons this way, and there don't seem to be issues of fraud or abuse. It's the places that allow you to drop an easily reproducible coupon on the table with no verification required that are open to abuse.
     
  4. Buddha

    Buddha VIP Whale

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    Well .... everyone is entitled to their "opinion", and I respect those of others. My wife and I are examples of those that play lots of MP's, and every casino has their own way of enforcing that usage. Some casinos are very player-friendly, and the dealers do not even ask to see our player's card, nor our ACG - ID card. Others will require to see both, but are then very receptive to our coupon play. A few places, like the Gold Coast, Ellis Island, and Jerry's Nugget require you to turn in your MP coupon at the player's club, in exchange for a separate voucher (some once per month, some once per year). The Silver Nugget was one that the pit boss recorded you in the computer system. The Orleans is funny, in that they require you to bring the LVA - MP to the player's club first for a voucher (once per year), but has no such requirement for the ACG - MP. They obviously do not worry about how many of those get played.

    As was stated by "Ben", the object of any coupon is to get you in the door, and I'm sure that the Orleans, Palms, Plaza, Tuscany, etc. know how many ACG books are sold each year, and how many coupons should be expected to be played. However, if I do a few extra here & there, the total MP's played would not exceed the the publisher's total.

    My wife and I visit Vegas 3 times per year, and we each do MP's on every trip, where allowed. If we visit the Orleans, or Palms, three times each trip ... and she plays VP for an hour, while I play BJ for an hour, during each visit ... then we will each do a MP on each visit, and we might have a meal, as well. Three visits each, during three separate trips during the year, will result in us playing a total of 18 MP coupons at that particular property during the year. Did they "get us in the door" ... did we "cycle" some money ... did we visit more than once ??? YES to all questions. Am I going to apologize for those 18 coupons ... absolutely not !! We were allowed to play those coupons without any scrutiny ... some we won, some we lost. If those casinos were upset with 25,000 + coupons being played, they certainly have it in their power to "control" it.
     
  5. chef

    chef Resident Buffetologist

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    I never abused MPs, but was a hit-n-runner - one play and out the door. Why would I want to stay? Any play more than the original MP drastically reduces my edge.
    There was a feeling of guilt as I constantly hit-n-ran, but I wasn't breaking any rules.
    So, I was part of the reason why casinos cut back on MPs.
    Ironically, the MPs did serve their ultimate purpose by turning me into a lifelong BJ player.
    Prior to the MPs, I never played BJ. Once I started getting LVA and ACG books, it made financial sense to use them at BJ tables. Over a period of time, the game started to appeal to me and I regularly play without the need of MPs.
    So, perhaps the casinos need to look at the big picture instead of an immediate gain.
     
  6. Grasp

    Grasp Low-Roller

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    And this is why I wish all casinos required slot club redemption and better enforcement of the coupon policy. If it's one MP per month (like with the slotplaycoupons.com) then your current practice would be just fine. If the rule was one coupon per year, then you would be held to that requirement.

    And while the casinos likely know the amount of ACGs sold and should have the data for number of MPs redeemed, most currently have no way of connecting that data to your play or food purchases at their properties. If, as you describe, most players were using the MPs in addition to other play and purchases then it would make sense to have more liberal policies. If most people were doing the hit-n-run approach then perhaps it doesn't make sense to continue with that MP.

    As things sit now, most casinos consider MPs poor marketing and you can clearly see that trend in the ACG and MRB over the past 5 years.
     
  7. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    I don't see a hit and run as abuse. It's evidence that the marketing strategy is not working but it's not abuse. It's the people, probably locals, who go out of their way to get tons of the same MPs, hit and run or not, that they probably have an issue with. They have ways to prevent that but don't. Admit that they aren't effective or that the players clubs don't want to take on the work to make them work but the blanket abuse accusations coming from the casinos are out of line and unfair.
     
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