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Slots Machines are changing

Discussion in 'Slots' started by 3cats, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. 3cats

    3cats High-Roller

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    Recently the media and news outlets have been reporting an increase in casino revenues, although there hasn't been much increase in the visitor volume.
    So, in my humble opinion. I have come to this conclusion

    Over the past 3 months all casinos have been taking out the 25 & 30 line penny machines which were a minimum bet of .25 or .30. and replaced them with
    40 & 50 line machines which means they are getting more and more out of the dollar than the player. Gone forever are the 15 & 20 line machines.

    Table bets
    it was very easy during the week to find $5. tables, but in the past 3 months , all we are finding is $10 tables. The days of $5. tables are gone.

    Yet while the player is spending more money and getting less play/entertainment, the value of comps is decreasing.

    Vegas is changing big time and its not in a good way for the player.

    such a shame.
     
  2. Jimbucc

    Jimbucc VIP Whale

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    When I was there 2 weeks ago, I noticed many penny machines with 40c minimum bet. If you have less than 40 cents left in the machine, you have to cash out and search around for 1 line 1 cent machines to play off the chump change.

    Lots of video poker machines at Gold Coast were shut down and opened up. I asked the guy working on them if they were changing pay tables. He told me it takes a lot more to change them but he also didn't volunteer to tell me what he was doing. I didn't want to push the issue but when I see banks of machines shut down I can only envision it can't be anything good.
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    this is an interesting idea, but it's such a gross generalization based on vague details and a tiny, tiny sample size such as to be statistically irrelevant.

    plus it doesn't really make any sense. the easiest way for casinos to increase their revenue without paying $1 more is to tighten down the slot payouts. they can even do this remotely. they are constantly bringing in the latest machines, so maybe the newer ones have higher max bets, but it wouldn't make any sense for them swap out machines just to increase the max bet. it's way too cost prohibitive. as far as $5 tables, those have been going the way of the dodo for years, it's not just a last 3 month kind of thing.

    but what in this world isn't getting more expensive and/or providing fewer benefits every day, every month, every year? it's the magic of inflation.
     
  4. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Thats more just how slot machines are progressing.

    Back in the early days of video slots most of the machines only had 7-10 lines but since then they've been getting more and more. Its was largely when WMS came out with their G+ series that 30 lines became standard and when IGT and High5 started cranking out games a few years back they just went with 40 lines as their norm.

    For players the more lines usually means more action and higher volatility, for the casinos it means more revenue coming in.

    The big thing is that for players they need their bankroll to adapt as well: when you were playing only 10 cents a spin back in 2002 it was pretty easy to make $20 last forever on the low volatility machines... today with 40-50 cents a spin machines with a high volatility you can blast through $20 in no time
     
  5. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    I can say that there tends to be more machines with higher max bets each trip for the penny machines. So, I definitely notice an upward trend.

    But there are still a significant number of older machines available so not sure just how much it is a factor.

    Walking through a number of casinos and you wish they would get some newer machines.

    Could the revenue be coming from the restaurants and other activity. I know it seems more higher price places are opening up. Even some of the places we would frequent for years seem to have a jump in price and decrease in quality.

    Long story short, not sure if it is just one aspect.
     
  6. buffalo

    buffalo Low-Roller

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    The minimum payback on slots in NV is what, 75%?

    We can only assume when they replace an older machine with a newer one that they are getting closer to 75%. Maybe penny machines on the strip are averaging about 83% now? New slots cost a bunch these days, regardess of whether or not they are purchased or leased.
     
  7. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I could rewrite the post and replace 3 months with 3 years and in my believe it would be 100% accurate.


    Also where are you getting your info on visitor volume? I was under the impression that it was actually going up. It might not be back up to pre 2008, but it is higher then a few years ago. I thought the last reports put visitors up, revenue up, revenue per visitor steady, gambling revenue per visitor down. They are getting a significant more money from non gaming activities.

    Not saying your wrong because other posts didn't really provide proof either. It just contradicts most of what I've read on the economic status of Vegas over the last year or so.
     
  8. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yes, the minimum is 75% (terrible; every other state is at least 80%). The average is closer 88% right now, which is close to my home state's, Missouri's, average. The "large" strip casinos (>$72M annually) returned 88.11% for penny slots in the last 12 months starting in July 2012. The newest machines are probably closer to 83% though, likely 85% and the older games are keeping the payouts afloat a bit. Fortunately, a lot of slot manufacturers don't make sub 80 or even sub 85% payback settings for their games. According to the thread below, they say the lowest payback for "Sex in the City" is 90%, for example.

    http://www.slotmachinesforum.com/showthread.php?2820-Slot-Machine-Payout-Percentages-Here-They-Are
     
  9. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I think one thing that is true is that most of the newer penny slots no longer have the option to change the number of lines played. You are committed to a minimum 0.40 or 0.50 per spin (always play all lines, 0.01 per line). The older pennies had a rack of buttons where you picked the number of lines to play, and more buttons to pick the number of coins per line. I'm not seeing that on the new ones.

    A friend of mine calls it false advertising to label a machine is a penny slot when the minimum bet is 0.50. It works in UNITS of pennies, but you certainly can't play it for a penny.
     
  10. dmr

    dmr Registered Abuser

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    I find this majorly annoying! The lower-minimum machines are still there, but you sometimes have to look for them.

    However, our local Ameristar has added some lower minimum ones such as Twin Win II lately.

    The Great Recession is over! Customers are willing to pay more and get less. Law of supply and demand, buyer and seller meet at the price point, Econ. 101.

    If people wouldn't play the 60-minimum machines, they would be gone overnight! Ditto with 5:4 blackjack and short pay VP!
     
  11. DProxima

    DProxima Tourist

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    Agree, more lines is the way it is now. But honestly, when there were nine line or twenty line games, how many of us were really only betting 9 cents and 20 cents? I know I wasn't. I was betting five cents a line when the line maximums were so low.

    If you think of it that way, things really haven't changed much in terms of my average bet size with the addition of new lines.
     
  12. tacallian

    tacallian Low-Roller

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    You Americans (and Eastern Canadians) are so cute with your $0.40 and $0.50 minimums.

    Most machines in Alberta are nickel or higher. I'd throw a rough guess that only 20% of any machines in or near Edmonton are lower than nickels. Puts our minimum bets on most machines at $1.00-$1.50.

    (P.S Welcome to WMB Dproxima.)

    ^-----VOD
     
  13. oldschoolvegas

    oldschoolvegas Tourist

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    Why they change machines

    Its all explained in the book Addiction By Design. A must read for all casino patrons.
     
  14. Tammy58

    Tammy58 Frugal Slot Jockey

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    Laughing because I felt like this over 10 years ago. When they brought in the video slots with the zillion coins by zillion lines. It took me 10 years to start playing those pesky pennies and nickles. We preferred that they stuck with the quarter, half, dollar reels. Yes they are boring and didn't have the fancy bonus features. But when I bet 50 cents and I hit something at least I got my 50 cents back. Gambling will always be in the casinos favor that is the definition of it.

    A few years ago we almost stopped going to Vegas completely because of the video infiltration. We have only been to Orleans once and that was 10 years ago...we couldn't find more than 6 reels in the place that day. Walked around for 15 mins and left. You either have to learn to adjust or stop playing...as we have done. We stopped visiting some of our favorite casinos back then, due to the demise of the reels. We have adjusted what we play now just as the rest of you will eventually. The machines that you despise now...in 10 years someone else will be angry that those have gone....the circle of life.
     
  15. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yeah that's why I still only play the 3 reel traditional slots when I do play slots. nothing worse than playing pennies at 30 lines x 10 credits = $3 a spin and you hit 4 different lines and the total payback is $1.40. every time you spin you're a "winner", but you're still losing money. if I hit something, I want it to actually pay me.
     
  16. heatherlovesvegas

    heatherlovesvegas VIP Whale

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    Yea, penny machines aren't penny machines anymore. But the 2 and 3 quarter machines still exist, that's only 75 cents a bet... People like the new flashy machines I guess!
     
  17. vegas3

    vegas3 Low-Roller

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    I feel the same when playing slots. I hit a 1000 on the wheel of WOF, got excited and then remembered I was on a 25 cent machine. I only play dollar WOF now.
     
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