Discussion in 'Restaurants & Buffets' started by SH0CK, Feb 16, 2015.
Glad to see the Peppermill holding their ground. Hopefully it's not just a ploy for more money.
They will have to pry the Peppermill sugar dispenser from my cold dead hands.
Hands off of the Peppermill. A truly successful Vegas icon. Great food, great atmosphere. A reason to visit the north side of the Strip. The Peppermill should stay right where it is now!
I'm OK with them moving it intact and giving the fake plants a good cleaning. But, otherwise......hands off.
Best Philly cheesesteak outside Philadelphia!
My guess is they dangle so much money they find a convenient location nearby. They do need to re-pave the parking lot.
Plenty of fake plants for sale at the Dollar Store.
I am not sure I fully understand their plan here
1. I get the idea of expansion especially seemingly based around the concept of having more than one large convention at a time because of course with a layout that would spread across 2 streets (currently south across Desert Inn) and in the future west across Paradise you are not going to get conventions that will send people through that maze of buildings for a single large convention
2. of course I get the concept that a quasi government agency has cash burning a hole in their pocket that must be spent at all cost
3. I get they are out of space where they are now (actually they could buy out everything south of South Drive and even Sierra Vista and expand the southern building even more and IMO have a better contiguous layout)
what I do not understand is:
1. the concept that they really need to expand not just into the mostly vacant area south of The Riviera, but where The Riviera is as well
that is a massive amount of land and it would be a massive amount of new space do they really think they need all that space?
McCormick Place is 2.6 million sqft.
Orange County 2.1
Vegas is 1.94
and The Sands 1.31
San Diego will be 2.6 soon as well
but still that is only two single facilities larger than Vegas and San Diego is a much more contiguous layout and McCormick Place will be somewhat better still as well and I fail to see the that massive conventions that will need most or all of that sqft beating down the door to come to the Las Vegas Convention Corn Maze where you wander from place to place through connection tunnels and hallways
I realize sqft is sqft, but when you need a garmin or tom tom to help you navigate through the convention center how about lets just meet at the place where we did before that was one big ass facility pretty much all connected in a straight shot
2. what will they do with the Marriott that is just across Paradise it seems if they really want all the of The Riviera property and all the way to The Strip will they have a little carve out for the Marriott and parking garage (and will they demo the parking as well for the Marriott if it goes and for The Riviera.....hell they will NEED some parking and there is two garages already standing
3. why in the hell would you go ALL THE WAY to The Strip and take that valuable land and put what will probably be a not that attractive entrance to a convention center right on The Strip (and try shoeing the bums and beggars and hawkers and porn slappers away from THAT gold mine (since it is "public property")
what a great sell "come to Las Vegas and either use our beautiful new Strip convention center entrance where you can get mauled by more bums and beggars and porn vendors and CD and timeshare buffoons than anywhere in the world or use "the back entrance" that everyone else uses and that you have been using for years before we expanded"
seems like a great choice between crap facing The Strip or a beautiful new public works project bustling with crap hassling people on The Strip.....nice choice
4. looking at Google earth the line from Channel @ Convention Center Dr running straight north to just south of The Riviera is 792 feet
the line from Channel @ Convention Center Drive to Convention Center Drive @ Paradise is 2,062 feet
792' * 2,062' = 1,633,104 sqft
if you add that to the current 1.94 million sqft you get 3,573,104 sqft so over 973,104 sqft larger than Chicago or San Diego while ignoring The Sands, Mirage and other facilities that are available
and again that is NOT taking any Riviera space or any space west of where Channel would run it it ran north of Convention Center Drive
hell if you went west of the line Channle would be and to just behind The Peppermill you can get 2,270 feet * 792 or 1,797,840 sqft
that would be getting rid of the parachute place and those not so nice apartments and a lot of parking lost and leaving The Peppermill and a large amount of space on The Strip to put NICE stuff and it would still be leaving The Riviera and The Marriott and their parking garages
I can't see how they think they need more space than that outlined above or why they would want The Riviera space even it it was not that nice......it seems it would be smarter to leave The Riviera for future convention business and I don't know what they plan for the Marriott, but it seems it would be smart to leave it as well...... and again leave some space on The Strip for something that goes better with The Strip VS a fancy convention center entrance (is there such a thing) loaded with CD salesmen, porn slappers, bums and timeshare losers annoying your convention visitors
5. I can't possibly see how going much over what is currently available in the USA (2.6 million sqft at San Diego and Chicago) will really pay off in the long run because I see the possibility of conventions that need ALL or most of that being very few in number and I also see many smaller conventions not really embracing the idea of dealing with a massive convention center spread all over the place when Vegas has other options like The Sands and Mirage that basically have very large convention centers attached to the major property
and still if they take the area from east of The Peppermill, south of The Rivera and north of convention center drive and build a massive single story rectangle they will be nearly 1 million sqft larger than San Diego or Chicago already
and still with the Massive Sands and large Mirage in town and available as well
I can't see why they feel the need for any more than what I have laid out or why the need to buy The Riviera or go right to The Strip when that takes existing business and high value property off the books and off the tax rolls
6. I would feel really stupid about now if I was the one that imploded the Debby Reynolds Clarion.....I realize that sometimes it cost more to renovate than to blow up and build new, but Vegas will need convention priced non-casino hotels (I know it had a casino, but close it and demo or re-purpose) and I don't think that property was beyond a refresh for a decent priced convention hotel
I think the LVC people are spending a hell of a lot on money they might not get back and or that will compete with a lot of other convention space in Vegas and I am not sure it will compete all that well for many of the smaller conventions against other Vegas venues
@someone - I agree with you 100%!
I know for many years they have felt that not having a presence that fronts the strip "hurts them", and also, they have always had a problem moving people in and out of the paradise location during the larger conventions. They thought at one time the monorail was going to be the answer to their problems, and it has barely made a dent. It seems once these type of entities come up with a plan they are like bulldogs, bound and determined to make it happen at any cost, and anything or anyone that gets in the way is just run-over.
Maybe I'm just getting nostalgic in my middle age days, but it will be a very sad day for me if the Riv gets imploded, and even more so if the peppermill does as well.
It's my feeling that the strip should be for Casino's and commercial activities. To me, that's what makes Vegas so much fun being able to walk the strip, going in and out of the various properties, and just the "feel" and excitement of it.
With that huge of a footprint, they could run multiple conventions at one time, especially with a split campus. I agree that it looks like overkill right now, but I can also see turning the Strip frontage into some sort of destination itself by leasing some space to restaurants or possibly to a hotel operator who wants a hotel on the strip to supply rooms to the convention center, but not deal with having a casino.
Do I think they are leaning this way? Nope.
+1. I would also say that the LVCVA should pay for it as it seems they're just looking for ways to spend money. As a former 'drunken sailor' I get the idea of money burning a hole in your pocket but really?!?
Good assessment. In terms of the final statement, the LVCC could care less as it's other people's money and they are not accountable. This will give them more power and money, economic results are irrelevant. They will just demand increased fees to cover any overages / losses.
Current Las Vegas convention space 100,000 SQR Feet +:
LVCC 2.3M (plus 900K in parking)
Mandalay Bay 1.9M
City Center 0.3M
South Point 0.155M
J.W. Marriott 0.1M
Eight additional casinos have 50K-100K of space, and twenty additional casinos offer 10k-50K.
Am I the only one that thinks an integrated Peppermill 24 hour cafe/fireside lounge and small strip-front casino (using the unrestricted license from the Riv and 3.7 % of the worlds supply of neon) would be the best way to integrate the convention space with the strip.
Are they going after the ross as well?
I don't know how the laws work in Las Vegas, but in Philadelphia the convention center authority used eminent domain to condem and demolish several buildings in order to to expand the CC.
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