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Table Games low limit baccarat question (be gentle)

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by LolaDoggie, Apr 18, 2013.

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  1. LolaDoggie

    LolaDoggie VIP Whale

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    I've done some googling and haven't found the answer to my question on my own.

    My last trip I wanted to try blackjack. But, bj players being so...um...well you know...I don't have to explain, do I? I wanted to find an empty $5 table to get my feet wet with bj. I found some $5 tables and some empty tables but never an empty $5 table. So, I never did play bj. (I tried $5 craps at 4 Queens and couldn't get my head around it, although I did win some money)

    I was chatting with somebody at work and they mentioned how easy baccarat is to learn. I don't remember hearing any mention of baccarat players or mini-bac players being like bj players. I started thinking, maybe I could learn baccarat or mini-bac before my next trip and find a $5 table and get my feet wet. But, I don't see any low table limit info for baccarat or mini-bac.

    So, here's my question; is there such a thing as low limit ($5 ideally) baccarat or mini-bac in Vegas? I'm OK with downtown and off strip.
     
  2. bu$hman

    bu$hman Low-Roller

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    First, stop while you're ahead of the game at craps. Don't learn anymore, don't play anymore (tongue-in-cheek) as you might become a craps degenerate (like me and so many others I know of which I have created.)

    Second, I don't see why you should not be able to find a $5 game downtown. El Cortez should have it, of the mini-baccarat variety. It might be crowded. The rules are really very easy to learn. I will leave it to google or some other search engines, or books to explain the rules. Know that you, as a player, only have a few decisions to make. Bet on the "Player" hand. Bet on the "Banker" hand. Bet on the "Tie" hand. Sit out a hand or two. How much money you want to bet. Those pretty much sum up the game. You can bet all of them at the same time, if you wanted. Highly not recommended, but you could. Oh, I would guess there is also a bet on the Dragon, or some other "side bet" but I don't usually bet them. The hands are dealt and played out based on rules already established. No "bust" cards to take. It all matters on the rules. Google them. It is essentially a coin toss as to who is going to win. Slow-paced game, so that is good. Know that on "Banker" hand wins you will pay a 5% commission on the bet ($0.25 on a $5.00 bet.) That is because the rules slightly favor the "Banker" hand. I say play the game.
     
  3. LolaDoggie

    LolaDoggie VIP Whale

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    Thanks for the quick answer. How are baccarat or mini-bac players as a rule? Are they like bj players at all?
     
  4. bu$hman

    bu$hman Low-Roller

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    I don't know. There are all types. Pretty much, some can get pretty irate about losing a hand, but then again, it's gambling. Mostly, I look at this game as a way to pass time, maybe win a few bucks, and play a low house advantage game. I don't want to generalize, but my experience shows a lot of Asian players, mostly who smoke (I don't, but then again, it's gambling, and there's going to be some smoking, along with drinking...I do, but not crazy like when money is involved.) Mostly, people who play this game, again in my experience, are pretty bored. No real decisions to make. Don't have to think about hitting that 16 against the dealer's 10. It can be sociable, as it is slow-paced. Others I am sure will chime in.

    Edit: should have written, "players who smoke" rather than imply Asian's who smoke.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  5. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    a lot of them are Asian and they keep to themselves. of course some are more friendly than others, but for the most part if you keep to yourself, they will leave you alone. but I'm a pretty loud and energetic player, so people generally either love me or hate me. that's often in direct correlation to how well the table is doing, lol. I'm everybody's best friend when I'm pulling naturals. but there are some people I've seen that play by themselves and never say a word and people leave them alone. so you can be however you want.

    I've met quite a few nice people at the Bacc tables. I often see the same guys trip after trip and I enjoy getting to play with familiar faces. I don't really know anything about low limit Bacc, but I think you'll need to go DT or off strip to find $5 tables.
     
  6. BlueSkadoo

    BlueSkadoo VMB Sweetheart

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    At the Venetian they have an electronic 5 dollar baccarat "table" with the virtual dealers. It's not the same as sitting at the big table, but it is on the strip. It's not much fun to yell monkey at a computer screen though.
     
  7. dunebug81

    dunebug81 VIP Whale

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    El Co and Plaza downtown will have low limit games. Now it you're welling to step up to a $10 table then just about every midtier property on the strip will have a table or two (Or more) available. Luxor, Monte Carlo, New York New York, harrahs, flamingo, maybe Paris (it's been forever since I've played bac at Paris), and maybe mirage.
     
  8. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    So I will try to answer some of the questions:

    Low minimums: For sure Monte Carlo consistently has $10 tables. Off strip, but still close to strip would be Gold Coast and Orleans.

    I have not seen Paris have a $10 minimum in the recent history, actually.


    Downtown casinos definitely have $10 and even $5 minimum.



    Players
    Are they like bj players? Well, not in the sense that some may get mad at you for messing up their hand(s), etc.

    Bacc players tend to analyze quite a bit. Sometimes you may see one or two players hold up the cards from being delt while they analyzed for betting patterns, etc.

    Mini Bacc is in the general gaming floor, so the dealers deal the cards. In the high limit area, typically, minimum of $100, possibly $50 depending on casino and days, the players will get to turn the cards over. If everyone plays the same, then the player with the highest bet gets to turn over the cards. If some play player and some play bank, then the cards go to the highest better for each side respectively.

    The "trick" is to watch a player who tends to guess correctly most frequently. Then, follow them. Conversely, if you notice a player who has such a bad streak, who would lose every hand they bet, definitely wait for them to place a bet and bet against them.


    If you are lucky, you could last very long in this game. But, you can also get killed very quickly at the same time.

    It seems like it should be almost 50/50 chance of guessing right, but you could have streaks where you guessed only 10% right, etc.


    There has been a suggestion that this game is rated by the shoe, which is true in a a couple of MGM casinos, but is not true at other casino chains. For example, CET rates you on time play and average bet, regardless of how long the show takes. However, the pit may adjust your time play if they feel you sit out a lot of hands. More of the other casinos follow CET model than that of one or two MGM properties.

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    then their theo model for Bacc incorporates the average number of hands per hour, which may or may not be good for you if you play a fast shoes. you can guarantee there's no free lunch here. just like Cosmo rating odds on craps, but they lower the overall theo and it actually works out worse for the player. I like that with MGM it's always one shoe per hour and a shoe is always 75-80 hands, so you know what you're getting. with CET who knows what you're getting?
     
  10. bjboyle

    bjboyle Tourist

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    The Tropicana had a $5 mini bac table last August that wasn't very busy.

    Bryan
     
  11. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    :beer:

    Cheers to Bryan making his third post since 2007!

    :thumbsup:
     
  12. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Don't give up on blackjack just because there are a few jerks out there.

    If you're willing to play downtown, there are plenty of low-limit tables...even Fremont has a $3 minimum shoe game... If you're just wanting to "get your feet wet, I would suggest that table or the $5 CSM table at Golden Gate (which has the advantage of allowing DAS - the games @ Fremont don't.)

    Play during daylight hours... and sit at any seat except 'third-base'. That way, if there does happen to be a jerk at the table, he's less likely to go irrational on you for a questionable play.
    But if it does happen - I think you should just declare to "the table-in-general" that your decisions have the same chance of 'hurting' the dealer's hand as is does of 'helping' the dealer's hand. That if you're 'playing wrong', the only person actually hurt by it is you.
    Then, shrug them off and continue to play. If it bugs somebody that much, they can leave and go find a higher limit table.

    Now, all of that said, I would strongly urge you to learn basic strategy. There's a 'sticky post' here that has a very easy-to-learn basic-basic strategy. Don't do it to placate the jerks - do it to improve the outcome of your play!
    Good luck!
    :beer:
     
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  13. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    I think NYNY or Luxor have $10 mini-baccarat. Baccarat is a fun, easy game. I've converted my friends into baccarat players.
     
  14. mjames1229

    mjames1229 VIP Whale

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    At the Rivers Casino in Chicago, they have a full Bacc table. I've played at a $15 minimum, and also $25. I can't even put in to words how much more fun it is to get to touch the cards (and even watch others touch them).

    Even at $25 a hand, the pace is so slow with a full table that it rivals the pace of Pai Gow Poker.

    With all that said, if you can find a full Bacc table for $15, treat yourself!
     
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  15. LolaDoggie

    LolaDoggie VIP Whale

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    I think I'll learn baccarat and min-bac. That way I'll have some options. If I find a low limit bj table that looks friendly I can give it a shot, if not I can make do with a low limit baccarat or mini-bac table. Also, those virtual tables are a good option, I'll give those a try too. At some point I'm going to have to put on my big girl panties and hold my own with those mean bj players. Thanks for all the excellent replies.
     
  16. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

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    I never played bacc before but Rivers is in my neck of the woods so it looks like a good place to start.

    What's the proper buy-in for playing at a $10 mini bacc table? And how are commissions paid? Assuming a $10 table, does everyone just pay the dealer 50 cents when they win a banker bet?
     
  17. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

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    I know Harrahs and Gold Coast have $10 tables. Harrahs has two but most likely to open just one and Gold Coast is littered with $10 tables. This is where the locals go and many there do so to make a living. Good crowd. I don't know anything about NYNY and I have not played there but the table(s) at Monte Carlo is a major stinge. Play there if there are others playing but if you want to play by yourself, not recommended. No unlimited free hands.

    Yet I know downtown has some low limit baccarat but I have not played there so can't say much.
     
  18. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I'd buy in for $200 if playing $10 a hand, or at least $150. When you win a banker bet, the dealer puts little tokens above your seat number in a rack at the top of the table, and that way he keeps track of how much commission you owe. Usually you wait until it's accumulated for a while and pay it off, but there isn't any rule about that. Don't pay it off every time you win a banker bet, though, that would be tedious. Obviously you have to pay it off before you leave the table.

    The other thing you'll see is most players 'keeping score' on these long score sheets, basically recording the results of the hands as they happen (Banker, Player, Tie, Natural 8 or 9s). This can make the game more amusing but has zero predictive value. Even if you knew the next 4 cards coming out of the shoe exactly you still wouldn't know how to bet unless you knew the order. There isn't anything like card-counting in blackjack that can be leveraged in Baccarat.
     
  19. dunebug81

    dunebug81 VIP Whale

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    Some tables do take it out every hand which does make the game run slower if its a full table but wrongwaywade is right most places on the strip keep track of it with little numbered discs.

    I like to buy in with 20x my base bet at baccarat so $10 min would be $200.
     
  20. thebucket

    thebucket VIP Whale

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    It has been a while, but I did once play mini-bac on the main floor at Caesar's for the $25 minimum... It was a nice combination of rules, minimum, etc... They took commission on each Banker bet at the time of the win, and they didn't use $0.25 cheques or actual quarters... Volia! 4% commission thanks to the rules, which cuts the house edge nearly in half. :)

    (I'm not at all sure if this is still there or still handled in the same manner, though I've heard of a 4% game at The D downtown recently, no idea what the minimum is on that)
     
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