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Local Casinos Are a Losing Bet (Businessweek)

Discussion in 'Casino Industry & Development' started by Kickin, Apr 4, 2014.

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  1. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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  2. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    The New Jersey stuff is tricky because it's still a nascent industry. I agree that the projections were way oversold, but I'd argue that neither New Jersey nor Nevada really intended their online gambling operations to stay intrastate. In my view, the long game is to get the infrastructure in place, and then start pitching compacts to neighboring states. If they could pick up, say, New York and California respectively, and eventually become the go-to operators for online gambling in their regions, then there's real money to be made.
     
  3. brucky11

    brucky11 Tourist

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    Losing

    They are losing because of poor comps and $25 buffets The over 50 expect to lose but want some kind of freebie
     
  4. Tammy58

    Tammy58 Frugal Slot Jockey

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    As an over 50 woman who hasn't been to my "local" casino in close to a year...reduced payout on slots, more nonsmoking, playing around with the comp structure is the reason I haven't been back to Foxwoods in a long time. For years I went every 3 months or so for bingo and slots. They messed with the Bingo and I haven't played that in over 5 years now. They messed with the free play and the payback % on slots turned terrible in the past few years. Also the over 50 crowd develop medical/mobility issues over a number of years. The people I use to bring with me have passed away or can't handle the trip more than once a year now. I also only went to Vegas once a year...last year I went twice and now it is time for my annual spring trip again. I find if I have a Vegas vacation planned I don't think about going to Foxwoods, I save my money to have more fun in Vegas. Everyone I know has stopped going to Foxwoods and only go to Mohegan now. The comp pt changes really alienated many people, including their high rollers. Lesson in all of that for AC and Vegas local joints...don't piss off your main audience.
     
  5. lasvegas_limo_driver

    lasvegas_limo_driver Vegas Guru at Infinity

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    The big places like station and such have more competition from local neighborhood bars that give same or better odds on machines. Dottys, Molly's, timbers, PT's are putting up places on every corner. Instead of driving 15 minutes, now ppl can drive less than 5 and some walk or cab .
     
  6. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    The target market is 50-55 y.o. women and the casinos do everything to market to everyone but them. At local casinos, it seems as the best promos are on weekdays. Women in that demo still work. There are promos everyday. That only works for retired seniors who will set their budget for the week and make it stretch for that week. So many giveaways are so cheap: cases of pop, cheap As Seen on TV items, cheap housewares, etc. A lot of casinos are installing lounges for live music but they book bands that appeal to younger guests, some of who are drunk and disrespectful by the end of the night. Even the restaurants wouldn't necessarily appeal to middle age women - they instead seem to think about what appeals to their husbands. And at least in my market, part of the reason things are falling off because people flock to new and the casinos are slow to give them new.

    We now of Dotty's and other gambling cafes as well slots/VP in bars. The casinos here barely really compete with each other for market share and really haven't given anyone a reason to choose them over someplace more close. You could go for months without visiting some casinos and they won't acknowledge it. A few years ago, a regular visitor just stopping after three months would get something to draw them back in even if they were a tiny fish.
     
  7. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    nothing lets you know faster than the city or state you live in is headed for fiscal disaster and run by fools than the shrill cry of "lets bring in casino gambling"

    I mean it has only failed to revive or juice the economy of every place it has even been brought into besides Vegas and Macau.....but surely your tired, run down, heavily indebted, foolishly run, dirty city/state with no other real attractions or worse attractions that casinos will be a parasite upon will be different!
     
  8. etm117

    etm117 Low-Roller

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    As someone who lives in Baltimore where they are building a Baltimore HorseShoe over in a shady part of town. I 100% agree with that statement. Sad but true.
     
  9. hammie

    hammie VIP Whale

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    I'm surprised this article didn't make more than a passing mention of the Pennsylvania casinos. Last year (2013) this industry generated $1.3 Billion in tax revenue as slots are taxed at 55%, table games at 14% of the "win". There is still one more license available in Philly, too bad that Wynn pulled out. As for the core demographic, 50-55 year old women with $50-75 burning a hole through their purse, if this bankroll would last more than 15 minutes, maybe these gals would return.

    I just think this industry is reaching its saturation point, the layoffs at IGT is probably a sign that growth is leveling off. I read a link somewhere on this board that the new SLS project in Vegas projects gaming revenue to be 35%, so two thirds will be non-gaming revenue.
     
  10. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    You're right, this legal online gambling is in its infancy so its hard to read much into the numbers. But the difference in projections for this first fiscal year of $160 million vs the actual $12 million is just nuts. You expect some disappointment because these projections are always really optimistic, but when the difference is over 10x it makes them completely meaningless.
     
  11. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    The projections really were complete horseshit. I wish they'd been a bit more honest -- it would have been entirely plausible for them to say that intrastate gambling limited to New Jersey wasn't going to be a big driver of revenue on its own, but once they got the games up and running they could sell themselves as experienced operators who could provide services to other states pursuant to compacts. But that wouldn't have excited the voters, and politicians tend to believe their own hype.
     
  12. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    Hmm...I don't even live in Bmore and that's not true.

    The Horseshoe is near the inner harbor downtown, right besides Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium, and is literally on I-295 going into downtown.

    Unless you are saying the Orioles and Ravens play in a shady part of town, I dunno where you got your info.

    If folks don't like casinos, cool, I prefer Vegas personally. However, they all aren't bad and there's no need to make stuff up.

    You make the Horseshoe sound like it was located in Druid Hill.

    I think it sucks that it'll have no hotel. Dumb.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  13. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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    So true. As a resident of Colorado I can only add that "recreational, adult use" marijuana is perhaps poised to overtake casino gaming as the panacea "cash cow" for desperate state/ locals/federals to shore up revenue. Not making judgement on whether it's a good or a bad trend, but it's coming to a venue near you...and perhaps earlier than anyone thought.
     
  14. Robkno

    Robkno Guest

    10 or 15 years ago, you could visit Tunica or Atlantic City and most of the higher-end resorts at both places pretty closely mimicked what you'd find in Las Vegas in terms of amenities, rooms, pools, food, entertainment, etc (save for the smaller overall scale). But while Vegas continually raised the bar in terms of opulence and options to eat, drink, shop, and be completely entertained, the other gaming resort markets did not.

    Tunica used to draw visitors from St. Louis, Chicago, Oklahoma, Georgia, Kentucky, etc. Now many of those places have as nice or nicer casinos than Tunica does, and no real difference (thank to Harrahs in large part) in terms of the generous comps or odds Tunica used to have. Tunica has retreated to being mostly a locals market for nearby Memphis, which has been battered by the recession and foreclosure crises.
     
  15. jrinct1

    jrinct1 VIP Whale

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    This poster NAILED it.
     
  16. jrinct1

    jrinct1 VIP Whale

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    I also have to agree with this as well.
     
  17. eltotaupin

    eltotaupin Low-Roller

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    weli just spent a night at the Holiday Inn Express in February. YES that area is a DUMP!!!! Didn't want to leave hotel after dark and I'm not a country bumpkin that's never been out of the country.
     
  18. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    Fair enough. Than that makes all of Baltimore a dump and lets add NYC to the mix since it has bums and trash. Seriously, it's like walking off-strip up Harmon in Vegas or across Mandalay Bay or past the Wynn. I could call that a dump....yet it's just unoccupied.

    It's as if when the new casino opens, the area will remain secluded.

    Honestly, I LOVE hearing the little backlash of local casinoa from Vegas lovers. I even like the remarks like "I wish local casinos would all shut down to make Vegas more special".

    Hey I love Vegas too but this is massive fanboyism run amok.
     
  19. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Downtown Baltimore - Two Blocks from Inner Harbor

    [YOUTUBE]4rEl8fpMVEI[/YOUTUBE]

    I'll take my chances in Vegas.
     
  20. Busyman

    Busyman VIP Whale

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    Uh oh. Hmm I remember a thread being closed down because someone wanted to make it like Vegas has no crime and other places do.

    I can easily bring up the random person riding in a cab that burst into flames because a careening car's driver got shot in a driveby or the person that got beat up in the elevator of a casino or the shooting at Drais....all in Vegas.

    Please stop. I really do tire of this Vegas is good, local casino's entire areas are bad.

    Again, I prefer Vegas too. I chose to get married there Nov. last year and went Feb of the same year. I just dislike the lying or deliberate obfuscation of Vegas' troubles and crime in an effort prop Vegas up. Vegas doesn't need it.

    As with any place, if you lack common sense or any type of street sense, don't go there. I laugh at the mere posting of the vid above because an acquaintance of a friend of mine got beat up by some random crowd of dudes in Vegas maybe 5 years ago and all he was doing was walking up the strip at night.

    There's crime anywhere, especially metro areas, and Vegas is no where near sanitized of this.

    For the record, I don't live in Bmore but go there numerous times for the Ravens, the Orioles, runs (races), and bars and get hotels there when I do....so, more than the average pneub tourist.

    In fact, I'm going there tonight for the Baltimore Charm LFL game.

    Never had a problem....but I also have sense. It is not my town but I know about it than, well, most of you.
     
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