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Table Games Laying the 4 and 10 (no 4 and no 10) craps

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by patroyal2014, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. patroyal2014

    patroyal2014 Tourist

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    I haven't played this laying strategy yet, but would like to hear your feedback/experiences. Laying the 4 and 10 during the come-out roll? Then call off after the point has been reached? I have a small bankroll of $300. I plan to play the minimum wager of $41 each (total of $82). I am not playing the pass line/ don't pass.

    Any feedback on whether this is a good play or should I stick with don't pass + odds wagers?

    I am staying at the table for about 3 hours, so I know I won't get big money winnings.
     
  2. chess

    chess VIP Whale

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    If you BR is only $300... I personally wouldnt do it.. .that is just me.....

    I would stick to your original game play of playing the don'ts.

    That is my .02
     
  3. TXactuarial

    TXactuarial Low-Roller

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    You're betting $82 per point, making a bet with very volatile payouts, and you're going to be there for three hours!? There's a decent chance you won't last 5 minutes! What's the table minimum at your game? If I was hell-bent on playing a laying strategy, I would play the pass line with odds, and then bet smaller on laying 4/10. This strategy not only hedges your bets for bankroll management purposes, but will make the game more fun to play.
     
  4. patroyal2014

    patroyal2014 Tourist

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    Good advice on the expected losses. I think I'll lay off the lays play.


     
  5. TRN

    TRN High-Roller

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    Can you lay for less $? Maybe if you could just lay one of the 4 or 10 for $10 or $20 at a time (dont know what limit you're getting in on), you would have a chance to stick around longer. I'd still recommend the Dont's here as well...
     
  6. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I don't do a lot of lay bets. Does $41 win $20?

    Honestly I could see this being decent if that is the only bet you do. To me this would be boring beyond belief though. You have no money out there for most of the game.

    Is this correct?

    They roll a 7, you win $40
    They roll a 4, you lose $41
    They roll a 10, you lose $41
    They roll anything else, you win $0

    I could see it being reasonable. The odds of people making the point of 4/10 7-8 times before 1 initiall 7 is rolled seems pretty low. I just go back to the idea that you will have no bets out there for the majority of the game though. I just don't see how that would be enjoyable. :)
     
  7. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    I would say NO!!
    I took $600 one night, and simply play $60-No4 ($1 vig on the win)
    I busted out after like an hour or so...and it was extremely boring...even when I did hit, I only won $29...
     
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  8. Film-Noir

    Film-Noir High-Roller

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    Laying is danger to small bankroll

    I would avoid Laying anything, if your going to bet Darkside, just bet Don't Pass+Odds.
    It's a very simple play, has a very small house advantage.

    Just watch for Hot rollers/Hot table, they can eat a Darksider up in a few points being hit. :peace:

    Simple rule: If the table is Steaming=as a darksider, you should be Leaving.

    You want the Bla-Sleepy (Night of the Living Dead) table, where no-one ever hits a point, no cheering, no High 5's= your making $$
    & Lon Cheney/Christopher Lee is the Box man.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  9. 4Eyes

    4Eyes Low-Roller

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    Don't pass plus 3x4x5x odds = 0.27% house edge.
    Lay 4 or 10 with juice only on win = 1.67% house edge.

    It is far better to play the Don't with Odds than Lay the 4 or 10. The Lay Bets on 6/8 and 5/9 are even worse for the Player. Also, it doesn't matter if you are making the bet on the come out or any other roll -- the odds are the same.
     
  10. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    I started laying the 4 and 10 heavily on my trip last month. You don't actually bet $41 on each - you just bet $40 on each and either lose or win $19 (most casinos only charge a vig on the win).

    You can't really lay for less or otherwise you get kinda shafted on the vig.

    I came out ahead doing it, which is simply just a fluke, but it was fun having the extra action out there instead of just my usual dark side with double odds.

    I mainly started laying the 4 and the 10 whenever I'd walk up to a table in the middle of a roll. That way I could get in on the action without having to wait for a made point or a seven out before making my dark side bet.
     
  11. engicedave

    engicedave VIP Whale

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    As a recently minted craps player, let me make sure I understand this;

    The "strategy" is to only place $41 each on 4 & 10?

    Wouldn't $41 action on say a 10 pay more than $19?

    I'm confused
     
  12. TRN

    TRN High-Roller

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    The "LAY" bet (not the "PLACE" or "BUY") is actually a bet that a 7 will get rolled before the number you pick (a "darkside" bet). If you "lay" the 10, you're betting a 7 comes up before the 10. Since the odds are that the 7 will come up first, you make 1:2 on the 4 and 10 (instead of 2:1 if you buy the 4 or 10 and it hits). It's a safer % bet but pays off less.
     
  13. TRN

    TRN High-Roller

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    Only thing I would add is that it seems like every casino does this differently. Some collect the vig up front, some don't take it til it hits. Obviously the latter is preferred in case the dice roll loses that bet you don't also lose the vig - but every place handles this differently. Some you'd bet 41 to get 20, others you'd bet 40 to get 19. I always ask when I walk up to the table and buy in, before I make any bets. "Do you collect the vig on buy and lay bets up front or when it hits?"
     
  14. engicedave

    engicedave VIP Whale

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    OK, now it makes sense.
    I was getting the terminology confused (lay/place/buy)
     
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