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Las Vegas Whale Or Not?

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by blackjacknut, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    I was reading an article that stated in order to be considered a Las Vegas Whale you had to bet around $500K an hour. Do you think this is true? What do you consider to be the following:

    1. Ultra Low Roller
    2. Low Roller
    3. Medium Roller
    4. Medium High Roller
    5. High Roller
    6. Whale

    Just curious to see what everyone thinks.....
     
  2. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    For a whale, I think some of that is property specific. If you're the biggest player in the casino at some given time, I think that makes you a whale to that casino, even if you'd just be a high roller somewhere else.
     
  3. CenterfieldNine

    CenterfieldNine Low-Roller

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    All average bj bet per hand, 4 hours a day, at The strip on average...

    IMO,
    Ultra low up to $10
    Low roller $10 to $50
    Medium $50 to $200
    Medium high $200 to $1k
    High roller $1k to $20k
    Whale over $20k

    I know that high roller range is huge, but that's how I think of it.
     
  4. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    I had a host about 10 or so years ago that said if you spent at least 100K per visit you were considered a whale. I think he considered a visit a 2-4 days.
    This was his third property (MB).

    That being said I think he was really implying high roller. I say that because they didn't get private aircraft, but the wales did.
     
  5. vegasqc

    vegasqc VIP Whale

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    For me its all depending what game are you talking about

    A guy playing 100 000 per day playing slots is probably a bigger whale than a guy playing 200 000 per day on BJ/baccarat for the casino
     
  6. Tellafriend

    Tellafriend High-Roller

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    my 2 cents: there really is another level now b/n high roller and whale. I've heard it referred to as "mini-whale". They are more important than they used to be because of the recession and are being sought more. They get everything they want, besides the private jet, inculding suites and even villas depending on the weekend, unlimited food and beverage, a loss discount and upfront airfare. In my mind they are theoretical players who routinely play b/n $75-175k per trip. But again, as someone pointed out earlier, those numbers are fluid depending on which property you refer to. A true whale is someone with credit to knock your lights out like Nate. But there are only so many of those folks in town every weekend and when they aren't, the hotels have a lot of capacity to entertain the so-called "mini-whales." As for high rollers, anyone who will risk $25-50k theo will be treated like one. They get penthouses, limited food and beverage, spa, shows, etc. The importance in the distinction b/n whales and mini-whales is that there are a lot of small business owners who can afford such stakes, whereas again, there are very few true whales and those that exist are often foreigners who don't have to leave their countries to gamble regularly.
     
  7. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    (Not bragging, just the facts for discussion)

    Well from experience I will drop between $50K to $60K a trip, my trips are anywhere from 7 days to 11 days. (3 times per year), I'm at Hotel32, with a fully comped Loft Suite for my stay....food and beverage although not unlimited I've never ran into a problem with spending between $600 and $800 a day on food/beverage (for two) and getting it comped. Tickets to any shows I want and a pretty high level of "free play" thrown in for good measure.

    I still pay for my airline tickets. For me I think I'm doing ok on my comp's, I don't take advantage of my Host (I do buy her nice gifts though....:thumbsup:) , I could probably push the limit more but I don't, that is just not my style. I don't like to take advantage of a "good" thing when you have it.

    What do you guys think, do you think I'm being "under comped" or "over comped"? Just curious to see what others think.
     
  8. JWBlue

    JWBlue VIP Whale

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    Does "drop" mean lose or is that the total amount wagered?

    There might be a objective way to view it.

    What is the value of everything received that is comped?
    What percentage is that amount of the amount"dropped"?

    I would think there is a percentage of comps to total amount "dropped" that would indicate whether what is being comped is fair.

    That is how I would view it.
     
  9. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    Lose, I will calculate as you suggest.
     
  10. Tellafriend

    Tellafriend High-Roller

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    I believe you are being slightly undercomped. Mainly in the airfare department. You should get $1000 at the end of your trip for it. As for f/b, my initial thought was you should be getting b/n 1,000-1,200 per day; but given the number of days you are staying in a loft, you are probably due $800-$1000. Of course, this presumes you are not just walking in and dumping the $$ off quickly and that your theo equates to roughly your losses over time...
     
  11. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    If you guys want my 2 cents on this matter, I actually consider myself a mini-whale.

    My definition of mini-whale (which I suppose is higher than high roller) is hitting a theo of at least 125k per trip and having at least a 500k credit line.

    The reason for this definition is that for the Wynn, I almost never qualify for their best villas (those 6 villas next to the Tower suite entrance) unless I'm at 250k theoretical...and when it is busy 250k theo won't even cut it....they want at least 500k theo, or 2m credit line.

    The reason I mention both the credit line and the theo is that you can't just have a credit line without hitting the theo....you have to consistently hit the theo to maintain your "status" at that level....it affects whether you get auto advances in tournaments, etc...

    My definition of whale is someone with 10m line, and actually bets it....so hitting about 2.5m theo...usually betting around 100k-200k every hand at baccarat....the largest player I've actually eyeballed was betting 400k every single hand at baccarat...and that's a whale in my opinion.

    My definition of mini-whale is somebody that can bet a max of around 70-140k, but usually bets around 30-50k a hand, sometimes even less.

    Since I've stayed in the best villa that the Wynn has to offer, and did the whole private jet thing, trust me when I say that a 500k or 1m credit line and hitting 125k theo or 250k theo should satisfy most needs. There really is nothing else the casino can get you. It gets pretty hard to spend all your points at that level (about 30%) unless you are seriously clubbing and opening 20k bottles of wine regularly...if you are a gambling fiend like me then basically you are eating tuna fish sandwiches and chinese chicken salads in the lounge area next to the baccarat pit anyways, and all your friends and family are enjoying your comps while you are sweating the cards :)

    I sometimes wonder what that whale I saw will do with his theo? At 400k a hand he probably hit 2.5m theo pretty quick....but how do you spend 800k at the property on food and board? They sometimes allow you to charge some gifts but they are not going to let you charge 500k worth of jewelry and other luxury items :) Last time I hit 500k theo they let me charge some expensive bedding and all the golf crap I could at the store.....

    Just my 2 cents worth....
     
  12. dunebug81

    dunebug81 VIP Whale

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    I would think that the frequency of the gamble would factor in as well. A guy that goes every month, IMO, would be more valuable than someone who goes once a year even if they both had the same yearly budget.
     
  13. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty native Texan; born and bred.

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    This is extremely informative as I appreciate the room and food comped even more in spite of being betwixt low roller and ultra low though for many hours a day...wow
     
    1st Super Bowl DT...Panthers / Browns no doubt
  14. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    Yes I have heard that...but the hosts' answers on this subject are sort of counter-intuitive because past a certain point they would prefer you to be a "bigger" player instead of a smaller player that goes more often. If the player plays the same amount, then obviously they would prefer the one that goes more often because of the added theo. I strongly suspect they get a bonus based upon theo for the year (especially leftover comps not used).

    For example, would the host prefer a 100k player that goes 5x a year or a 500k player that goes 1x a year. The theo (assuming full play) is the same for both, therefore the host actually prefers the 500k player because at the end of the day, they only have to serve him/her once...the casino makes the same amount of money (probably more because the bigger player uses less comps), and the host has a bigger player in his/her book.

    That's why whenever I talk to my hosts about this issue, they would prioritize their preferences this way:

    1. Come to their property this trip
    2. Come to their property first this trip before other casinos (you might lose it all and the first casino hit usually has bigger play)
    3. Play as high as possible (they will mention what you can get for the next level, airfare, tournament advances, etc....)
     
  15. dunebug81

    dunebug81 VIP Whale

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    Not to mention the casino puts more at risk with the guy who goes once a year and wins a couple of hundred thousand and doesn't show up for another year. The guy who goes several times a year wl have smaller wins and larger losses as the house edge would have that much more opportunity to take effect.

    I know I'd be better off going once a year with $40,000 then the 7-8 times a year with $4,000 each time. Mainly because I wouldn't lose my entire bankroll in one trip but a little here and a little there seems like I'm losing less.
     
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