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Table Games Las Vegas Sands Triples House Advantage of Most Blackjack Games

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jdvegas, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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  2. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

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    It sounds like the double deck games were spared?
    Only way I'd want to sit at a 6 deck table anyway would be because it was $5. V/P is out of my price range before I even sit down.
     
  3. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    That's how I read it as well. (It's also what others were saying about it last week.)

    That's still pretty bad though. It means that anything under $25 is going to be 6:5. And, unless they change things, it means that on busy weekends, anything less than $100 is going to be 6:5.

    Their VP is already as bad as any I've seen (I haven't played VP at a CET casino, but I can't imagine they are any worse, despite their reputation). Not too many gambling-related reasons to go there anymore.
     
  4. jingber05

    jingber05 Tourist

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    wait im sorry which casinos on the strip are now affected to the 6 to 5? are mgm casinos still 3:2
     
  5. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    glad i dont gamble there:thumbsup:
     
  6. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    Sands = Venetian and Palazzo
     
  7. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    I read the post last week but i guess it is official. Never really liked staying or playing at V/P anyways.
     
  8. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    I was at Venetian in January of this year and they had a $10 8-Deck BJ game that was 3:2; H17: DAS; RSA; Surrender right outside the Bouboun Room that I liked to play at for the music and the adjacent Craps table that I could move to if the BJ wasn't going well.

    I thought the rules were good considering the low limit, but if they are all 6:5 now then V/P has become a DO NOT PLAY zone.
     
  9. aaronw915

    aaronw915 Low-Roller

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    Haven't played at V/P but I don't think this nonsense will become the trend at other hotels on the strip. At least I hope not.
     
  10. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    This will be interesting to watch. It’s one thing when a Casino Royale or the old O’Shea’s goes 100% 6:5, or the Quad goes almost completely 6:5. Those places have the lowest limits on the strip. The $5 gambler doesn’t really have much of a choice if he wants to stay on the strip.

    But when you’re talking about $15-25 (probably up to $50 in some instances) tables, there are plenty of other options on the strip. In fact, there are plenty of options in neighboring properties – Mirage, TI, Harrah’s, Wynncore. You can find plenty of $15-50 games at those places with 3:2 payouts at all times of the day and nearly every day of the year.
     
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah CET is better for VP generally in terms of paytables. CET will offer full pay VP still at the $5 level (albeit at reduced tier credits), and also 40/10/6 (99.96%) DDB at Rio for 3/5/10 play dollars. They also offer full pay 7/5 Bonus Ultimate X for dollars (~99.3-99.4% with proper ult x strategy) and I think that game earns full tier credits.
    The best Sands casinos offer is 9/5 (98.45%) JoB.
     
  12. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    MGM casinos are mostly still 3/2, but NYNY and The Mirage have recently gone to 6/5 games for 95% of their low limit games.

    It's a scary time for low limit BJ players in Vegas...
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    It seems the 'standard' at most CET places now is 6:5 on the 8-deck shoes if the limit is $10 or $5. If the limit is $15, you'll get full pay. As I've never sat at the 6:5 tables, I'm not sure if you get surrender or not (the 3:2 shoes do offer it.) They don't deal 6-deck shoes except in the high-limit.

    I'd REALLY like to see Ven/Pal's reports on the amount of action they get before and after this change on the main floor. Who knows, for the somewhat reduced number of players they might be making more money on the higher edge. Probably only a real boycott where 90% of their shoe players disappear would dissuade them. As CET has gotten away with these $10 shoes like this for quite a while, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't lose a lot of action.

    Strange that the main floor 2-deck games haven't changed. Wonder if you can still get a real 3:2 game for $25? Cosmopolitan went the other way: all the 2-decks are 6:5 but most of the shoes are still 3:2.

    BTW, Aria still has zero 6:5 games, though the limits are seldom lower than $15 and those are continuous shufflers. The 6-deck shoes are $25 at the minimum.
     
  14. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    I'll be at the Mirage in a couple of weeks and will report back with the state of their BJ games. I will also walk over to the V/P to check out the kind of action they are getting at these 6:5 BJ games, particularly at $25 and above. I would be really surprised and very disappointed if $25 6:5 tables are getting a lot of play.

    Maybe I'll have a T-shirt made that reads "Don't be a Sucker - Don't Play 6:5 BJ"
     
  15. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    It may have changed, but I used a $10 match play at Bally's on a $10 minimum 3:2 table in Sept. It was Monday afternoon though, so $10 minimum is probably atypical. Margaritaville still has $15 3:2 at most times, iirc.
     
  16. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I’ve always enjoyed the DD games over by the HL room at Palazzo – I like the fact that they still deal a pitch game and it’s nice to be able to [STRIKE]defile[/STRIKE] use the HL restrooms without having to play HL room minimums. And the minimums are often only $25 (H17, though). I’ll be interested to see what becomes of those games. Will the minimums skyrocket as V/P patrons flock to the only good blackjack pit on the main floor? Or will gamblers finally put their foot down and refuse to play mid-limit 6:5 games and turn their backs on V/P completely, keeping the mins on the few good games at a reasonable level?

    Sadly, I don’t think the latter will happen. But, we’ll see, I suppose.
     
  17. woodsie

    woodsie Low-Roller

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    Rest easy as 3:2 games aren't going anywhere. As long as there is a market for 3:2 BJ, there will be casinos that have it. The only question is the size of that market and this is what will dictate the prevalence of 3:2 games.

    The day there are zero 3:2 games is the day when a big potential competitive advantage is suddenly available to any casino that chooses to offer it. There is little chance that this would go unexploited for long.

    Vote with your wallet and inform your gambling friends. Go where the good games are and the rest will fall in to place. Bad games of any kind only exist because people play them. Likewise, good games only exist because people won't play anything but them.
     
  18. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

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    Sadly I don't agree with you. There will come a time when all BJ's in Vegas pay 6-5 outside of maybe the highest of limits. 6/5 has spread fast and I didn't believe it would become the norm. At this point, I don't think people really care or know the difference.

    I'd love to be wrong however.
     
  19. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Unfortunately I have to admit I feel this is the way things are going. It is very hard for me to believe that anyone is willing to play 6/5 at all--but I suppose people are willing to play roulette and slot machines and 6/5 is a better game than either of those.

    I thought 6/5 would be a gimmick confined to the lowest limits and cheesiest casinos, but it has spread like a plague. Unfortunately the gambling public has accepted it and it is here to stay. Luckily, the demand for 3/2 is still there and at mid-high limits it remains the norm for now.
     
  20. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I saw this last weekend and was rather shocked to see nothing but 6/5 tables. I never would have thought there would be a time where Flamingo has better BJ at the 15-25 level than V/P.

    I did end up sitting down at a table because I just wanted to play some BJ. Now I'll just expect to never play there.



    NYNY was another one that surprised me. $5 table are fine, and even $10 tables in some cases. $15 tables in non party pits really shouldn't be 6/5. I didn't get around to enough of the other MGM properties to know if they were bad. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was for me to get a 3/2 game at Flamingo/Quad/Harrah's. Not all of the time, but it also wasn't difficult. 50% of the time they were DD pitch as well. Not the greatest rules, but I'd rather have them do things like no resplit aces than go to 6/5. The only rule I hate more than 6/5 is double only on 10/11.
     
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