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Table Games Is there a 'dark side' etiquette in craps?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by theotherone, May 15, 2012.

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  1. theotherone

    theotherone Low-Roller

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    Say you walk up to a crowded table and want to shoot the Dont Pass when the dice go to you.
    Situation 1:Is this permissible? Is it totally wrong (hence the wrong way term)?

    Situation 2: you have a table to yourself and are shooting for the 7. Before long more players arrive to shoot. They begin to make 'right' bets while you still shoot 'wrong'. Is it best to kindly pOint out to the new players that you are hoping for a 7 and they have been warned? Or just let them figure it out by themselves?

    Situation 3: you arrive at a casino with only a few hours to play. Ont one of 2 tables are open but you are dying to shoot Wrong by yourself, at a table to ensure you get the dice more often. How hard is it, in most cases, to successfully get a pit boss to open the table just for you? Do they have to make it a $15 minimum? $25? More?

    After this weekend at a lone Illinois casino I think I have converted to the dark side but I feel unless I'm in Vegas where you can easily find an empty table almost anytime, it will be hard to really get into shooting the Donts.
     
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    if you shoot the don't pass and others notice, you might clear out the whole table. but nothing wrong with doing that. in situation 2 i wouldn't say anything. "hoping" for a number doesn't change the dice. they'll either win or you will no matter what each of you "hopes" will come up so no sense in poking the hornets nest.

    no way you're going to get a pit boss to open an entire table just for you with a $15 bet. if there's already tables open, he'll just point you to one of those. if the one table is totally packed and you tell him you want something like a $100 table, maybe you can convince him to open the other one, but not for $15 or $25.
     
  3. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    Sitting box one day, couple college kids were on the Dont's. Every time the shooter sevened, they would act like they won the Super Bowl. CHEST BUMPS and all.....that would have got a 30 yard penalty in the NFL.

    I dont know how they made it out alive.

    As for the original question, play the dark side....and if the players dont like it, fuck em. They can make the same bet if they want.
     
  4. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    On the opening of another table, no chance.


    On dark side shooting. The only time people might get made at you is if you are yelling all by yourself everytime you win. You can be happy, just don't shove it in their face. :)


    The only thing I avoid when shooting the darkside(usually I pass), is that I don't take the dice in the first 10-15 minutes on a table. No real reason, just something I do. I pass more on hot tables as well, but honestly I don't stay on hot tables for long. :)
     
  5. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    The only real etiquette is just to not make a big deal about it, unless you're the only one at the table, or if everyone else is on the don't also. There's no reason or etiquette requirement to point out to anybody that you're betting the wrong way.

    As y2mulder points out, it's as much a matter of safety as etiquette. :beer:
     
  6. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    Enjoy yourself.

    You can say 7 as much as you like which of course will bug everyone else but too bad. Its all in good fun.

    If you are playing dont then i say act like it. lean into it.
     
  7. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I being a craps player if someone kept doing this I would just go find another table. Actually I will not get on a table with a don't player and will find another table if one gets on the table I am at. I know it shouldn't matter but I like everyone to be on the same team at the table. That is why I like crapless craps.

    But I agree with y2mulder that it might not be safe to do at a table full of drunk players
     
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  8. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    I don't really agree with Eddie on this. Most players are not going to take you yelling for a seven as "good fun" and sh*t happens, even in a casino.

    Granted it's your money and they are free to move to another table, but most Don't players are usually content to gather their money and not make a big deal of it. Just my .02.

    As to the rest. #1 OK, just unusual.
    #2 No need, they can figure it out.
    #3 No way for $15-$25.
     
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  9. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    You can also blow cigar smoke in the face of your non-smoking neighbor or pick up a pile of mashed potatoes with your hands at a swanky restaurant if you want. But, that doesn’t make it proper etiquette.
     
  10. theotherone

    theotherone Low-Roller

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    The only caveat is the casino where I play only has 2 total craps tables, and usually only one of them is open. So if I start shooting for 7s and someone doesnt like it, they either have to get on board, find a different way to bet, or move on to another game.

    There aren't any other casinos around so they (nor I) can just walk on to find a less crowded one -- we get what we get.

    I was there this past weekend and asked a few times if they would be opening the other table. They just kept saying "maybe later at 1pm" , then I'd ask again later and it was 'maybe later around 3pm', etc. It never occurred to me to request they open it at a higher minimum, but you are right, it would probably take at least $100 min to work. I just wonder if they would take it that high though, because I doubt most other clientele would bet that much on single bets. I dont know if they dont open both tables because of a staffing issue, if they want to keep all the action at one, if they dont want to keep an eye on 2 craps tables, or what.

    I love playing craps and I love the comraderie, something that seems to go away when betting the Dark side, but I am learning that a cold table is going to be cold no matter what, so it's best just to go with it and 'harvest' what I can out of it. I definitely dont plan to whoop and holler when a 7 shows though...just smile quietly and collect :peace:
     
  11. housdoc

    housdoc Tourist

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    Say you walk up to a crowded table and want to shoot the Dont Pass when the dice go to you.

    Situation 1:Is this permissible? Is it totally wrong (hence the wrong way term)?

    "Dark Side Shooting doesn't bother me, dice have no eyes or memory. I actually prefer a Dark Side Player on the Table when I shoot, I WILL take his money and if he is at my end of the table I will ask the dealer to pay me with HIS money....."

    Situation 2: you have a table to yourself and are shooting for the 7. Before long more players arrive to shoot. They begin to make 'right' bets while you still shoot 'wrong'. Is it best to kindly pOint out to the new players that you are hoping for a 7 and they have been warned? Or just let them figure it out by themselves?

    "Everyone on the table should know the game, everyone plays to WIN. Every Roll is a Winner for one side or the Other. Your money and Your Shot, You bet however you feel it right and Shoot to Win"

    Situation 3: you arrive at a casino with only a few hours to play. Ont one of 2 tables are open but you are dying to shoot Wrong by yourself, at a table to ensure you get the dice more often. How hard is it, in most cases, to successfully get a pit boss to open the table just for you? Do they have to make it a $15 minimum? $25? More?

    "Not going to happen, Most Casinos will have the Tables Open is they have dealer to support it."
     
  12. y2mulder

    y2mulder Low-Roller

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    Honestly, I think the only reason more people dont play the "wrong way", is because they cant understand it. The odds to lay, and the concept behind it is just too much for them. But when a table goes cold, it is a GREAT weapon, but people just cant comprehend how to use it.

    I would give $1,000 to see a whole table piling on the don't line, then rocking the place every time a seven hit. It would be much louder, thats for sure.
     
  13. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    my wife doesn't gamble at all, but one day she had a few drinks and decided she would come play with me. so we come over to an empty craps table and i have her roll for me. point, i place across, 7-out. try again, point, i place across, 7-out. try again, 7 winner. maybe we can win something? next roll, point, place across, roll one number (maybe we're onto something) ... 7-out. try one last time, point, i place across, 2 numbers, 7-out. i've never lost so quickly in my life. i wish i had been playing the dark side, i would have won huge. if i ever convince her to come roll for me again, i'll definitely play the don't and hopefully make a mint.
     
  14. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    People can bet whatever they want. There is no written document or rules that will tell you what to do and what not to do while playing the don't.

    Situation 1 - there is nothing wrong to play the don't. While many people don't, it's your money and you can bet whatever you want.

    Situation 2 - You are under no obligation to note to anyone that you are playing the don't. If they didn't notice it before they will eventually notice it at some time. If they don't like it they can move to another table or casino.

    Situation 3 - Just find a spot on the table that you can put your don't bets and don't worry about it. Yes, others might feel uncomfortable about your bet (many feel that you are betting against them, lol) but if you feel you will win playing the don't, don't feel guilty about it. As others have said, you will need to play higher minimums if you want a private table.

    As others have said, it might be best to be humble when on a table of people playing the "right way". Some players take it as a personal attack, that you are betting against them so if you start yelling for the seven and cheering loudly when you win it is possible that a confrontation could occur.

    I have seen it at the Cal, a bunch of big guys were playing, a don't player started playing and yelling "seven!" and was ecstatic that he was winning. Because it was a cold table the big guys were losing big time. When they walked away from the table one guy "bumped" (forcibly) into the don't player, I guess to vent his frustration that the dark player was winning.

    Most of us "right way" players respect the don't player but we still want to win which will mean that the don't player might lose. I think there is a lot of camraderie when all the players are playing the "right" side (hardly ever see a table full of dark players cheering), that they all have a common goal so sometimes people feel that the "chi" of the table changes when a dark player steps up. This is just superstition so just don't be afraid to play the dark side even if everyone else is playing the "right" side.
     
  15. theotherone

    theotherone Low-Roller

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    There is a lot of truth to that. Until recently I didnt understand it either, but between playing at a live casino and testing it on the 'Aw Craps' app for iPhone, I am starting to get the hang of it.

    Any time I have played before I have been turned off by the fact you have to pay more to win less (i.e. on the payouts of dont-odds and lay bets). But if you win more often then it can be well worth it. Plus I never realized the lay bets basically STAY out until the actual number they are on, hits. So if you can get to where you hit the 7 easily, you are golden.

    I too hope to join in a table where everyone is cheering for the 7. I have heard of one person on the boards seeing that, but that's it. Obviously it doesnt happen much!
     
  16. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Shooting from the don'ts

    I think it's only polite not to make a huge display when you win your don't bets, as it is very likely the rest of the table just lost.

    Shooting from the don'ts is a strange situation, because you are wagering that you will lose the option to keep rolling. Go ahead and do it if you want to; again, it's certainly not disallowed. However, I've seen many don't bettors simply pass the dice when it's their turn.
     
  17. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Craps is a social game and you don't always have to bet like everyone else which is one of the reasons why it so much fun.

    To answer your question....since you are there for fun, worry more about having a good time than what the others think. Some say don't get too excited, but no one says that to use "right" side players. :thumbsup:

    If you want an empty table, play early in the morning. My wife won't play unless at an empty table and we usually find one early morning.
     
  18. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    good idea, I will try that too.
     
  19. bedaniels

    bedaniels Low-Roller

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    I've learned over the years which shooters have a decent chance of having a good roll or the "hot hand" and which shooters are going to 7 out within the first 3-4 rolls, it's just trend and perception that you can pick up on after the dice have made a trip or two around the table. That being said i jump back and forth between lay bets and place bets based on the shooter. 95% of shooters ignore the fact that I am laying against them. 5% make a comment or two, give me a odd look, or angerly throw the dice which results in a quick 7 out when it's taken personally. I do however try and hide my smile when that happens as the dealer passes me my winnings. Also, leave the lay bets up that 7 shows often on come out rolls and you get paid again, after you pay another commission of course.
     
  20. Vinegarjoe

    Vinegarjoe Tourist

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    is there a 'dark side etiquette in craps ?

    I am a "right side" player, and have lost on a cold table (many times) by not switching to the "dont's", but to me, and in my opinion only, I wouldn't play the dont's as I compare playing the don'ts to wanting to lose.. sorry, just my opinion, as the statistics show that there are more ways for the 7 to show than any other combination, but that's my opinion.

    I would strongly suggest to not be the "don't" bettor that is yelling and screaming for a 7-out on every roll of the dice.

    I was at Fitzgeralds (now the "D") on February 10th, 2012. ( I remember the night because it was my birthday and the following events formed a great gambling memory for me)

    There was a young 30's something A-hole betting heavily on the don'ts.

    He would lay the 4 and 10 for 3 to 5 hundred on the come out roll, along with a 2 to 4 hundred don't pass line bet, with full odds.

    This guy had a pile of black and green chips in the rail in front of him, and he was chain smoking and appeared to be piss drunk.

    I was stick right, and he was in the hook opposite me closest to the dealer. The table was choppy at best, and he was yelling and carrying on, screaming for the 7 all the time.

    The dice were next to him when I arrived at the table, and he cleaned up on the 3 shooters prior to me.

    The dice came to me and after I set a point of 6, he started in on me, yelling for a 7, telling me there was no way I could make the 6.

    My second roll was a 4. (I love to hear the stick announce "DOWN BEHIND") He returned his lay on the 4 for the same amount. I came back with a hard 4. He now stops the game and instead of using some of the chips in his rail, he pulls a grand out of his pocket and throws it on the table yelling "Lay $500 no 4 !", so the box allows this, the game is stalled while the dealer count out 1K in chips, and makes the 500 dollar No 4 bet. (A 1K buy in at Fitzgeralds is not an every day buy in, it would appear that the box and floor tolerated this guy's rude antics due to his action)

    I roll a craps number, he starts yelling louder, "The 7 always follows a craps number, you SUCK, thow a seven !"

    Up until this point I am ignoring this jackoff, but now I am pissed, so I pulled a Babe Ruth and after the dice were passed to me, I threw a quarter to the stick and said "2 way hard 4, 15-10". The stick placed the bet.

    I looked right at him, and in a moment that cannot be repeated, Gently tossed the dice and watched as they hit the back wall, rolled back and settled on.... LITTLE JOE ! The stick called HARD 4 !!!!!

    All the "right side" players at the game went crazy and this a-hole decided he didn't want to lay the 4 anymore.

    I continued to have a decent hand, and ended up taking down his no 10 bet, and to complete what I would refer to as "dice karma" made the point of 6 a few rolls later.

    All in all it was an ok roll ( about 15 box numbers) but the best part was he stopped screaming and cheering for a 7-out after that hard 4 was rolled.

    While trying to make my second point, ( I can't remember what it was) he slinked away, with what appeared to be a fraction of the chips that he had before I started my hand.

    When I sevened out, the stickman said to me, "That guy was a jerk, nice roll Sir"

    The morale of the story, It's your money, bet how you want, just don't be "that" guy.


    Regards,

    Vinegarjoe
     
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