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Slots Is it possible for a casino to lose money in particular machines?

Discussion in 'Slots' started by en11871, Jun 2, 2015.

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  1. en11871

    en11871 Tourist

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    I am just curious about if a casino can lose money on any particular slot machines? I am questioning about the Fu Dao Le slot machines. They are fun! I honestly see people win all the time on those machines. Many of them sit there all day, without betting the max which is $8.88. I thought it is impossible for machines to lose money, but.....
     
  2. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    In the course of 365 days, a casino will win on every machine.
    SANS maybe an extreme high limit machine ($100+) in a small casino that only gets played by ONE player and they happen to hit a jackpot on it and never play it again. (I actually saw this happen, it was a $100 slot, and NO ONE every played it, except ONE person, who put in a few thousand, hit $20k and cashed out)
     
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  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    If they are misprogrammed, yes it's possible. If the machines have "bad luck" on a small sample of spins and players' win overall as a result it's possible. Generally speaking though, the machines win. And in cases of most slot machines...win a lot.

    Tim basically beat me to it.
     
  4. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    One day, maybe let it slide. Gotta think if a machine loses two or three consecutive days, it gets pulled and checked.
     
  5. Scottndindy

    Scottndindy Low-Roller

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    Short Term vs Long Term is the reason that we all gamble. In the long term nobody wins except the house. The short term is very volatile and why we are able to come out ahead on some visits to the casino. If a machine pays out a large jackpot it will take quite a bit of time for it to catch up. All machines are programmed to provide a certain payback percentage and will over time, but not in the short term.
     
  6. jaybert

    jaybert Low-Roller

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    Nevermind
     
  7. melbedewy

    melbedewy Low-Roller

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    Not true. If you have say a 97% dollar machine with a major progressive that hits during that 365 day period it could well be negative for the year.
     
  8. MrBBonz

    MrBBonz Low-Roller

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    I always thought they might have a machine pay out 101% or something but have it surrounded by machines at 96% so that they do have a winning machine. The D has an old VP machine that pays over 100% if you play right. But are we talking pure slots? If thats the case your best bet is ones that hit a progressive, but thats kind of different than what I think you are talking about.
     
  9. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Other than advertising it, folks would have no idea if a machine was paying out at 110% unless they played for a long long time, or the payouts were so small you could actually see it happen. Think through it.. if a machine had only one payout - lets say "$1,600" in this example. - and paid at 110% - it would still need to take in close to $1,600 for every hit. So, unless somebody played for a long time, they could not even figure/guess at the payout percent.
     
  10. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Thats actually a common thought, but if you had two machines sitting side by side and one was set to payback 150% and the other at 80% and somebody was playing both they wouldn't notice the difference between the two and be able to say which has the higher payback and for a short session of just sitting there and playing for a couple of hours its just as likely they could lose money on the 150% payback machine as it is the 80% payback machine.
     
  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Short term yes.
    Long term no.
    Even the deuces wild VP which is capable of positive return will make money over the long haul.
     
  12. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    They can use one as a loss leader for sure. Someone once told me that it does occasionally happen :ssst: Probably not for much and probably not too often though!
    Either they are trying to get a draw in a certain part of the casino or they put it in a bank so it seems that they all pay well.
     
  13. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    A machine that pays a huge progressive jackpot on one particular day could be a net loser for the year, but it raked in money all or nearly all of the other 364 days, and its sister machines made money like crazy while the jackpot was running high. I cannot see any advantage for the casino of having "loss leader" machine in a bank. No one would be able to tell. Some winners just assume their machine was the hot one even though it was set up identically to its neighbors.
     
  14. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    No one being able to tell is actually the whole point. Makes the whole bank look hot so some passerby will stop. I doubt it is a real loss leader, but they probably push them up to the upper 90s for a while.
     
  15. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    I believe that all of the machines are programmed to have a set return to the casino over the long run (i.e. 15% return to casino 85% payback to players); however, the machines could be in a loss position for a short sample period.

    I remember when I first started going to Vegas in the late 90s, the Casinos would advertise the payouts with big signs like "Up to 98% Payback" on a bank of machines, which meant that at least one machine in that bank had to pay 98% payback. I have not seen that recently, which implies to me that the paybacks are significantly lower nowadays.
     
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  16. melbedewy

    melbedewy Low-Roller

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    They're still around-CC, Fremont and the Palms to name 3. Plus the El Cortez advertises that all their slots pay way more than most places. Recently closed Riviera had 2 98% machines near the entrance for decades.
    http://elcortezhotelcasino.com/gaming/slots/
    If you go to the El Cortez or Boulder Strip you can be pretty sure you are playing the looser machines. The older dollar Blazing Seven reels are also high payers everywhere you can find them.
     
  17. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I would agree with this totally. Over a short time, the 80% machine could easily payout and the 150% machine pay nothing. Just the way it works. Not bad luck or anything like that, just simple math.
     
  18. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Agree with the above. No need for a loss leader because in an identically programmed bank, one machine or another will pay out more in the short term and attract passersby.
     
  19. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Also that machine at the d is nickels so you'd have to play super fast for a very long time to generate any sort of real profit. This assume perfect strategy for hours on end.
     
  20. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    Also remember the progressive jackpots sometimes are over a million bucks. If one hits that slot might be negative for the year, but way up for the few years before it. Also the progressive amount factors into payback %. A casino could have a high payback machine with a huge progressive, but if you don't hit it the paybacks will be minimal. The slot could say 95% payback or what ever but reality it's like 75% sans progressive.
     
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