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Is Free-Play based on both ADT and number of days played?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Aces and Eights, Dec 11, 2015.

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  1. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    I know that many comps are based on ADT. It is probably the same for Free-Play. If I play $20k coin-in on only one-day and stay one-night, would my free-play on a later visit be the same as if I were to play $20k coin-in on the first day and $20k coin-in on the second day while staying 2-nights? In other words, as an exaggeration, would my free play be the same if I played $20k coin-in on one-day vs. playing $200k coin-in over 10 days? Or is overall coin-in also considered when casinos calculate free-play?
     
  2. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    It's a good question and really hard to figure out, at least for MLife.

    When they give an offer, it's usually for up to a certain number of nights, usually 3 or 4.

    But you can stay on the offer for a single night and still get all the freeplay.

    That makes me think that their freeplay component is some percentage of your ADT, but that number of days played doesn't factor into it, because they don't know how long you'll stay when you take the offer.

    So on your first example 1 night vs 2 while maintaining ADT, I don't think your freeplay offer would go up at MLife. My stays have varied from 2 to 5 nights and my ADT is pretty steady, and my freeplay offers don't move much unless I up my ADT.

    Your second example where you maintain it over 10 nights; if that was a single stay, I dunno what would happen. Seems like it would warrant higher freeplay, but I don't know if that would happen unless you went through a host.

    I've also found that on my last couple of trips, my ADT went way up; they were only two or three night stays. The room type they offered me got better and the resort credit went up, but the freeplay stayed the same. It's really hard to figure out without asking someone who knows for sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  3. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    I don't mean to be sarcastic, but it's going to sound that way. ADT stands for "average daily theoretical", so your answer is right there, its your average. The killer is in your example, you said one day and one night v. 2 nights. 2 nights is actually 3 days with all the programs I'm used to (even if you check out at 12:01 am on the third day, its still a "day" for calculation purposes.)

    Now - you make a fair point. It seems to follow if you're there 10 days v 1 day, shouldn't your offer be 10x as good? It makes sense, but that isn't the way our offers work. When we get our offer for 4 nights + free play, we almost always get our host to add another night or two to the offer. It doesn't come with a proportionate increase in the amount of free play we receive unfortunately.

    Probably because the casinos understand that for most players we're bringing the same BR with us whether we come for 4 nights or 8 nights. (that's been our shortest and longest stays). So our risk tolerance is the same regardless.
     
  4. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    With a host a big chunk is based on your BR.

    Who knows what the system uses for auto generated offers, but it's likely more tied into your ADT and not total trip theo.
     
  5. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I'd agree- at least at Palazzo, it appears to completely be based on ADT.

    Myself and another VMB'er were comparing upfront offers. I'd stayed 9 nights, he's stayed 1. My points (which do reflect theo off the slot play) were approx 9-10 times higher than his- so likely our ADT there would be similar. Our marketing offers are within $100 of freeplay from each other with same room offering and access level at a particular event. I do work with a host but the only extra value I see are the benefits associated to the tier level in card status. No change in marketing offers.
     
  6. KnotGillty

    KnotGillty Low-Roller

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    That may be true about marketing offers. But there are other benefits to a longer stay. The other benefit is the amount of backend comps one can get from an extended stay & play (meals, spa, etc.). That's where it pays off to have a personal relationship with your host. Spend a few minutes with them every trip saying hello and catching up and sharing stories about their family and yours. If you establish a personal relationship with your host, they are more apt to take care of you on the back end to the best of their abilities.
     
  7. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I do have a host and she has taken care of everything off the back end of the trips. (my trips were 3 nights X 3 trips in above comparison). Even assuming 30% backend, I've left lots of comps on the table every one of those trips based on the real THEO numbers she gave me- the worst was 6500 Theo for 3 days and I only had $1000 in charges approx. I've heard of other hosts "padding" the upfront offers with extra freeplay, but mine has never offered and I'm too squeamish to ask, haha. My bad? I'd just prefer more on the freeplay as I know I would actually use it. I make a point to call her to the host desk each trip and personally give her a gift that also has a cash gift included in a thank you card. Maybe I should be giving that to the marketing department instead- haha.
     
  8. KnotGillty

    KnotGillty Low-Roller

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    It can never hurt to ask. Get beyond that mental hurdle. The worst they can do is say no. And the flip side is just a cherry on top of the sundae.
     
  9. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I know. I have this internal debate with myself and its silly. I just feel strange asking for stuff when I haven't been ask to pay for anything anyway. I just assumed (as the OP had originally questioned) - that the frequency of the ADT play/aggregate volume would somehow come out in the upfront marketing eventually that it doesn't have to BE requested.

    OP- I did question the marketing department on this a short while ago. I said as much play was going in, even increasing THEO per trip- the upfront freeplay didn't seem to change. Their response was to say that the additional days of that level of play is noted in other ways like I would get priority over other players on sold out offers, exclusive offers/invites not everyone gets, etc. They also did say to talk to the host as they should be able to put something together. (It's very possible I'm just dealing with a host who is taking advantage of my not asking).
    To me, most of what marketing indicated is still tier level benefit anyway (Platinum level for instance is guaranteed a room with 24 hrs notice). At least at Palazzo, I think it's strictly ADT on the upfront marketing throwing out the auto generated offers, perhaps a little conservatively, and the hosts manage what happens beyond that and likely have a fair bit of leeway.
     
  10. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    So if I go to Vegas 8-times a year for 2-nights, I would get twice as much free-play than if I were to go 4-times a year for 4-nights. This is assuming my ADT stays consistent over the year, and what they offer as free-play per ADT stays consistent. (Of course travel costs would cost me more; around $150 per trip.

    But now considering how they calculate a check-out day as a gambling day, I can see how your ADT will go down more if you stay less days. My 2-night stay is considered 3 gambling days (ADT reduced by 33% if I don't gamble the last day), and my 4-night stay is considered 5 gambling days (ADT reduced by 20% if I don't gamble the last day).

    I've decided I'm just going to go when I want and for how many days I want and not worry about what my best value would be. I don't want it to interfere with the fun of going.
     
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Yes, assuming either
    1) you get offers that can be used more than once during their effective period, or
    2) you get enough separate offers to cover 8 trips

    MLife offers with freeplay are pretty much on a quarterly basis. I usually don't see wording in the offers that say they can only be used once, although they do usually disappear from your online account once you've booked. However, I think there have been multiple reliable accounts here where people have booked offers from two different MGM properties during the same trip, with the required 72 hours in between the stays, and on the 2nd stay, they were allowed the comp nights and resort credit, but not the freeplay component.


    That's really the way to do it. It makes sense to compare the overall value of offers among several chains when planning a trip, but the fact is, 99% of the time, the freeplay doesn't end up having an impact on your win/loss result anyway.
     
  12. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Some thoughts:

    1 - The answer varies by property. CET and most others are big on ADT - DAILY AVERAGE. Mlife appears to look at your trip.

    2 - Double the ADT would rarely mean double the freeplay. Offers and customer value tends to fall into groups and not exact numbers. After all, you have never seen freeplay of $236 for example.

    3 - Someone getting an offer this week for $300 FP, and someone else with EXACTLY the same theo next week could get a different FP offer. The marketing and sr management will raise and lower offers often.

    4 - There are many factors that lead to offers. Frequency of visits, total spend, coin in, dates of visits, and many other demographics including the cycle of the moon. Depending on what data driven bucket you fall into this week, the offers vary.

    Back end comps on the other hand are a bit more "regular". That number is tied to your actual play and theo over the past few days of the current trip. But, because of the human nature in giving out comps,it will never be exact. After all, mgmt is always pushing and pulling the hosts to increase traffic/revenue and reduce expenses - which in itself conflicts with each other.
     
  13. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    That's very true. freeplay just extended your play time for 1-5 minutes and doesn't even count as coin-in or tier credit.
     
  14. NeoDough

    NeoDough Tourist

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    A very good approach.

    My Freeplay offer never changes (talking about Mlife email offers), it's always the same amount ($2,500) no matter what I do. My host @ B wasn't able to give me more, but I've only asked once. I plan to ask again on NYE and will try to remember to update this and let you know.

    Mine might be a bad example though, because it may be that Mlife's emailed Freeplay offers have a fixed maximum. I think read somewhere that they max out @2.5k - not sure though.
     
  15. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Most I have ever gotten at Mlife is $1000. CET at $300 I think, but I play them way less in Vegas.

    I always tell a host that I prefer Freeplay vs Resort credit - but it does not seem to matter much.

    As to the always at $2,500: I wonder if there is some cap. Or maybe a level where it has to go to a higher level for approval?
     
  16. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    As a quick reply...I got $3000 spread out over 1 month ($750 a week; "bankable") at Harrah's Rincon (We did D-I-A-D; going from never having a card before to 5000TC is pretty hefty)
     
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  17. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    This is the case with most things in a Vegas casino. It sounds like you play machines, but for example, whenever I'm done playing craps, I always ask them what they had me rated at, and I often say that it should be a bit higher (usually because it should, since I have a tendency to press, toss out random field and place bets, etc., that don't always get caught by the boxman). The worst they can tell me is that they're staying with what they had me down at initially, and 9 times out of 10 I get bumped up a bit.
     
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