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Interesting numbers comparing Strip v Downtown

Discussion in 'Casino Industry & Development' started by Sonya, Jan 31, 2016.

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  1. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    Just saw this article: http://vegasseven.com/2016/01/27/strip-vs-downtown-numbers/

    It compares some tourism and revenue numbers between The Strip and Downtown. I think the most interesting are Gaming Revenue:

    I think if the Strip casinos want to know why this is happening, they should come read some threads on VMB. :wink2:
     
  2. Franken Dean

    Franken Dean Newbie

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    Those occupancy numbers are high. This can only hurt the 2016 comp promos and rates
    Kinda of wish these were not as high.
     
  3. marcianofan

    marcianofan Low-Roller

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    Love em or hate them, I think the Stevens brothers at the D and the GG are making a big difference downtown.( I like the D a lot but go either way on GG). I go to Vegas every 4 months or so and stay at least some DT and what places are always busy, the D and the Golden Gate. The golden nugget seems to be getting busier also. Love MSS and the Cal but they always seem the same; same dealers, same crowd, same traffic. The four queens? Binions? Same thing. The DT Grand? Ehhhh.....
     
  4. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    The Strip is reforming itself into a place to PARTY! This is where you go to be seen at pool parties, nightclubs, bars, spas, shopping venues, and hi end restaurants. Gaming is not their center of attention anymore.

    Downtown offers better gambling rules and odds. Low and mid rollers are trekking towards Downtown in search of gambling value, choosing to leave the luxury and the glitter of the Strip behind. Some are staying at the Strip and gambling Downtown. It's the best of both worlds for them.

    The Strip is still making money, but the revenue is coming from other than gaming. Downtown's gaming revenue is up because of the better rules and odds. The Strip still offers competitive rules and odds like Downtown but at the higher minimum tables. This is why the low and mid rollers are migrating Downtown.

    This is strictly my opinion and theory. Bottom line: Vegas is Great! There's something for everyone. People are still going in record numbers. I'll be one of them in 8 days!
     
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  5. mkcoroner

    mkcoroner Low-Roller

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    ...did a walking tour of DT in November...I am not sure where the guide obtained his information but he stated that 95% of the tourists staying on the Strip do NOT venture away from the Strip (go DT) during their stay. I found it very hard to believe but when I see the difference in gaming revenue maybe he is correct....
     
  6. lithium78

    lithium78 High-Roller

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    To be fair to the Strip, people can gamble anywhere today, so most people aren't coming to Vegas simply to gamble anymore. Most are coming for experiences they can't have at their local casinos, which includes pool parties, clubs, resident shows, celebrity restaurants, etc. Downtown is basically Old Vegas, where they still have $1.99 dinner specials and great odds on low-rolling gambling to draw people in. Different strokes for different folks.
     
  7. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    This has been observed in other threads discussing gaming revenue, but is worth bringing up here too:

    Those revenue #s are year over year (same month previous year). And the strips numbers have been looking bad year over year for just over a year now, mainly due to a decline in high limit Baccarat (economic issues in China being a weighty factor). If you actually looked at the lower end machines and tables, you might well find that the strip is not doing badly at all over that period.

    Still, it is nice to see downtown succeed. As long as it does not succeed enough to raise limits or cut comps, that is ....
     
  8. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

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    It's a a self fulfilling prophecy as far as gaming revenue declining on the strip. It goes down a little and the response isn't "how can we improve gaming and get the numbers up?". It's "we need more Walgreens, we need more shopping, we need 6/5 blackjack!". And then of course gaming revenue continues to decline.
     
  9. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    This! It's not that people are ambivalent about where they gamble, the problem is the strip is running that customer away. The numbers from downtown show that gamblers still want to come to Vegas to gamble and it also reflects that people want more value. And look at where most of the most interesting new restaurants are opening - downtown. If the can open some hot clubs, downtown will be in a position to challenge the strip for the youth dollar.

    I think that at some point, investors are going to want to see the strip casino numbers improve. I can't imagine investing in a company where a major profit center is in consistent decline.

    And if you concerned about prices going up downtown, start building a relationship with an off strip casino as a backup.
     
  10. jon_vegas

    jon_vegas Low-Roller

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    I go to Vegas 6 to 8 times a year on average for the past few years. I've only been to down town once, a couple years ago. Maybe it's not as high as 95% but most people I go with to Vegas (especially the first timers) don't venture out to DT. But I think I will have to visit DT on my next trip.
     
  11. Franken Dean

    Franken Dean Newbie

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    Do they provide a more entensive report. It would be nice to see a casino by casino year end comparison. I would also like to see the big disparity in dining dollars and ticket revenues. I would think Downtown relies heavily on gambling revenues versus the strip with more profits from booze, food, ticket sales along with the big gambling revenue stream.
     
  12. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    I agree, I think if you just looked at dollars wagered the strip would be down due to loss in visitors from asian markets. However if you broke out gaming by machine drop, you would still see some uptick. Of course all these reports are used to try to re-enforce the notion that people are gambling less and demanding all these other things in Vegas, which I believe is a fabrication by the operators to justify the shift in their business strategy.

    Which IMHO is more a business strategy for revenue protection. Sure gaming is available across the US and one can argue there is some decline in specific gaming segments, but my personal belief its due more to operator behavior (comps, odds, marketing, fees) then a dynamic shift in visitor behavior. Translation people are having to carve more of their gaming budget to pay for raised prices, which the operators are translating as a shift away from gaming.

    As for downtown, yes the operators are benefiting from an increase in gaming and a pickup in traffic from visitors. IMHO this could be partially attributed to some displaced value conscious visitors (think Stardust, Riviera, Sahara, Frontier, IP) who moved their play downtown.
    We also could see some more locals / regional moving play downtown thanks to the decreasing gaming odds on the strip. I don't think however there is a mass exodus by most Vegas visitors to gamble downtown as evidenced by an opinion of people on this board, friends who have no clue Downtown even exist, and the lack of operators offering higher tier products.
     
  13. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    The Stevens brothers have carved out a niche in the business downtown and have raised the profile of their grind joints. They are treating their customer fairly, offering a clean / nice value offering. Their product is nothing special however, and I still consider both the GG and The D dumps in comparison to their strip neighbors, GN and Downtown Grand. Yes Longbar is very nice and the rooms look way better than what the Fitz had, but their casinos are small, The D still has dark unattractive corners on their casino floor, slot inventory is limited, and the place definitely has a cigarette smoke issue when the place gets crowded. Upstairs had a nice novelty theme going with the coin droppers, but they killed that when they put a bunch of crappy old slots from Riviera.

    I think people in the online Vegas communities blow out of proportion Derek Stevens and what he is doing downtown. Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy, treats his customers fairly, and is operating decent value properties downtown but he's not an innovator as an operator and not a Vegas visionary. I still consider them to be the Walmart of casino operators, offering value but nothing special in his segment.
     
  14. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Sadly no. Other states like Illinois/Indiana report slot payback and those numbers per casino. But in Vegas it is reported as Downtown/Strip/Boulder Strip due to the obviously large casino lobby.
     
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  15. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    From what I understand from a few Vegas locals I spoke to is that locals don't go to the strip to gamble or don't often.
     
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  16. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    This was my first thought when I read this thread. It's hard to compare the two. Such a large portion of the strip's gambling numbers come from high roller Asian clients. With the downturn in China's economy, it's significantly lowered the action from that demographic. DT is completely insulated from that. There are no 1M+ credit line players downtown. They aren't effected by downturns in foreign economies. If you really want to compare apples to apples you'd have to only look at the numbers from like $50 limits and less table game numbers and slots (excluding $5 denom and up). That would tell you if there is really an actual shift of gaming from the strip to downtown, or what is most likely just a decline in a gaming demographic that only the strip caters to.
     
  17. Franken Dean

    Franken Dean Newbie

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    Like it or hate the noise. The D casino is the biggest contributor to giving downtown a party scene, all the others casinos in DT are profiting from the increased foot traffic. since 2013-2014 remodel of the Fitz..

    I have visited the last 2 decades I have always like the DT area for spending 20 hours of straight ass gambling, but the atmosphere seemed boring. Even with the FSE Canopy it was still bleh. Now I can easily talk my friends to go downtown. It is not just bargain gambling spot for locals and Vets. No, good shows yet, but plenty of casual entertainment.

    If CET ever gets a Nugget type property in DT, there will be a lot of other die hard Strip visitors moving their action there as well. IMO

    PS- this is also why Ceasars will also not go there.
     
  18. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    Frankie, I see your point. But the demographic at The D is still a lot of out of townees who are probably rolling their beer cooler upstairs to the hotel room, tying one one, and going on a binge gambling streak. These are not the convention folks, upper class middle america tourists, young trust fund Californians, or even middle aged high income earners like myself who drop 25K or more a year on leisure activities (not saying that to sound conceited). That's the kinda of player demographic downtown needs to move the needle and see significant business growth. I just got back from the Caesars Palace and was blown away by some of the money I saw dropped and people I talked to in Diamond lounge. These weren't even what I would consider high rollers (people with 50K and higher CL).

    You can say what you want about the crappy odds on the strip, but having a nice casino, attractive and friendly staff, and beautiful rooms goes a long way in easing the gaming losses and improving the vacation experience.

    Anyway my point is, Downtown has not evolved enough yet to pull in higher stakes gamblers. I think the Nugget and Downtown Grand are beautiful looking properties. I really want to like downtown, since I think the nostalgia of old vegas in the 40's and 50's really cool. Truth is many of the downtown properties are really still dumps, with a fresh coat of paint when you look at their room inventory and facilities.

    Here in the Midwest 3/2 BJ, craps, pai gow, Mini Bac, and 97% VP pay tables are plentiful within a two hour drive of my house, so at least for me and my friends were not flying across the country to stay in Days Inn quality hotel rooms for equal or less gaming value.
     
  19. Rooster0620

    Rooster0620 Low-Roller

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    This is my exact experience. I stay on the strip for the pools, nice dinners, shows, etc., but I now take my gambling action downtown.

    I enjoy both places.
     
  20. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    Hard to compare downtown with the strip. The strip is working on the non gaming aspects so naturally their gambling numbers are down. We need to see their non gaming revenue but I think we will see an overall increase on the strip also.



    I don't know, I like MSS crap tables and they are usually busy in the evenings. Unlike you I usually avoid the D because I'm an old fogie and don't like the loud music being played. I don't see the crap table at the D as filled as I see at MSS. I never have a problem findlng a space at the crap table at the D but I sometimes can't play at MSS because all the crap tables are all filled with players.
     
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