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Interesting- college student athletes trying to join a Union

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by Joe, Jan 30, 2014.

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  1. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    On one hand it makes sense: the schools make a lot of money off these guys and its not like they're all going to make it to the pros where they can make up for it. Also their "fake" education isn't going to do them much good in getting a real job after school and for sports like football there are the long term effects of concussions and injuries to think of.

    On the other hand: money. Not only is there the issue of disparity because some schools/teams will have a lot more money at their disposal for their sports program and thus could pay players more, but there is also all the events/courses/programs that are supported by money (either revenue or donations) that the sports programs bring in... which in a lot of cases are going to be things that are generally artistic and cultural, so it'd be easy to see some of that stuff getting dropped because there is less money for supporting stuff like that because money is going to the players.
     
  3. Iu25

    Iu25 High-Roller

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    It does make sense in a way, and if I remember right Ed O'Bannon really got alot of this started. I believe he works for a high end car dealership out in Las Vegas now, but if you remember he played for UCLA back in the early 90's. EA Sports has now stopped producing NCAA college football for all game systems as well due to part of the lawsuit he has started with numerous other NCAA players. They are basically getting sued for using players likenesses and not paying them any money due to the NCAA coven laws that protect the NCAA but exploit the players. Even years after they are out of school they still have their likeness used for monetary purposes and given nothing for it. NCAA will say they got a free college education for it, which also makes sense but that only takes you so far. Its gonna be one of those landmark decisions I think!
     
  4. vegas_or_bust

    vegas_or_bust High-Roller

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    A degree from Northwestern University is not a "fake" education to me. The athletes received free tuition, room, board, books, great meals at the training table, and a refund check for other miscellaneous expenses. Not to mention the fact that Northwestern is a top university. Why is this no longer enough?

    If they want to get paid to play sports, there are professional leagues for that.

    If they don't like the risk of injury that comes with college athletics, they can choose not to participate in varsity sports and pay their own way to go to college.

    As a former scholarship athlete, I think this is ridiculous. These 19 year old kids are already receiving a scholarship that is equivalent to $50,000 per year. Why do they need more?
     
  5. Username

    Username VIP Whale

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    vegas or bust, I totally agree. No one is forcing them to play a sport at any college. Most would not be considered in college academically unless they play a sport.....What next, high school players will want a union also.
     
  6. vegas_or_bust

    vegas_or_bust High-Roller

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    You bring up a good point. Large high schools in Texas that draw 15,000 fans for their football games most likely generate a profit for their schools through gate admission, concessions, merchandise sales, etc. Do those high school players deserve to be paid too?
     
  7. mikenhe

    mikenhe VIP Whale

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    tough one.
    they are already compensated to an extent.

    I can see an argument for them receiving payments for image rights... oh and make sure the kids who get injured are looked after....
     
  8. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    These guys from NU aren't talking about compensation. In fact, their argument is that the scholarships are compensation and therefore they are already employees of the NCAA. I think the concussion thing is the main driver along with the arbitrary punishment system and I hope this gets results. How many players who never make the NFL will be dealing with brain injuries from college football? There is too much money in college sports for these guys not to have some support in the future.
     
  9. Buddha

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    I can "somewhat" see the many sides to this issue ... HOWEVER ... Sports are a voluntary activity, and the majority of athletes are compensated with a free education, plus all the stardom attached to it ... not to mention the "professional" opportunities available afterward.

    The college athletes are well taken care of, and now they want even more. If they are not happy, ask them how many would quit college sports if they don't get their way ... not many, I would assume. For every player that steps away, giving up on their potential successful career, there will be ten players waiting in line for that position.

    JMHO ....
     
  10. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I'm actually surprised to see so many people on the side of the NCAA.

    Yes, sports are a voluntary activity. This doesn't mean those same people can't use all of the assets they have to better themselves. If some student joins a science club(voluntary), are they restricted from doing some work outside that club to make some money in science?


    NCAA is a monopoly. I do believe they have a great interest in the safety of the athletes. When it comes to the future of these players though, I believe they have a bigger interest in making more money for the schools than for the players.


    The NCAA is a business that uses student athletes to make massive amounts of money. If in the end the money a student currently receives is acceptable compensation, then that is fine. Right now though I do not think students are treated fairly. I can go to my boss and ask for a raise. Can someone playing football? Could Johnny Football go to his couch and ask for 40k more a year? He has skills that he can use. The NCAA is imposing a little on what he can value those skills and the player has no recourse other than to quit.
     
  11. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    I agree... the NCAA is a pimp.
     
  12. vegas_or_bust

    vegas_or_bust High-Roller

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    What do you mean by the "concussion thing" and the "arbitrary punishment system"?
     
  13. vegas_or_bust

    vegas_or_bust High-Roller

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    You are correct. Johnny Football cannot go to his AMATEUR college coach and ask for 40K. You know what he can do though? He can submit his name for the NFL draft (which he has done), and he can ask for all the money in the world from the team that drafts him.

    Also, your science analogy is flawed. You are correct that the science student can earn money outside of school using his science skills. So can football players.....it's called professional football (NFL, Arena Football, CFL, etc). These players have a choice: either play in college and get the same scholarship as everyone else, or play professionally (or choose not to play at all).

    Lastly, the practical impact of compensating college athletes is mind-numbing. How do you do determine which athletes get paid (starters? offense? defense? scholarship players? walk-ons?). How do you determine how much they get paid? Recruiting would be impossible, as the colleges that pay the most would have the best players, which would destroy the amateur nature of the game. Do we really want a New York Yankees mentality in college football where one team pays twice as much as the other teams to acquire the best players? How do you decide which sports are compensated (just football? do basketball players get paid too? just revenue producing sports, or all D-1 sports?) Do female athletes get paid too? If not, then they have a strong case for discriminatory treatment. The list is endless.
     
  14. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    Like this will ever fly. The moment they unionize, Northwestern shuts down the football program and they get rid of all of the scholarship players. The next year they start up a new program with all new players.
     
  15. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    Just some comments on what's been posted -
    .
    #1....The NCAA really doesn't care about the "safety of the players".
    Why are all these college football players following what
    they see the pros doing ?
    I see no more hip pads, no more knee pads, no thigh pads --
    on ALOT of college players, now.
    They should be MANDATED to wear ALL padding for their safety.
    .
    #2....We ALREADY have the " NY Yankee Mentality" in college football.
    Just look at ALL the NCAA Football "factories" --
    they attract the best players.....with extra "perks" + cash + TV coverage.
    .
    #3....I do think a college scholarship is a great deal + worth ALOT.
    However, who really goes to all the classes and actually studies ?
    Not a good graduation record for alot of football scholarship players.
    And as a former college football player - I can tell you from experience -
    Between meetings + practice + school classes - I had very little time
    to study during the football season.
    And if I found the time ?
    I couldn't keep my eyes open long enough to read a book's chapter.
    Evening study was impossible - I was so exhausted by evening.
    .
    #4....Who knows ?.....in 20 years from now - we might be thinking
    "Why wasn't there a college sports union years ago ?
     
  16. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    BINGO!! The modern college athlete has become a pampered entitled whiner. They have their own state of the art gyms that can't be used by the student body at large, their own tutors available 24/7, their own study quarters, they have the best trainers money can buy, the best coaches the university can find. They have the best facilities and resources available, most of which are paid by their fellow student via rising tuition costs. They have their college education and living expenses completely paid for while their peers are taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt and working part time menial jobs for some beer money.

    Whether they choose to use their free ride to actually get a real education is up to them. Nobody tells them they have to major in underwater basket weaving.

    The fact of the matter is there is only a handful of players who the schools are actually "making" money off of through jersey sales, increased ticket sales etc. Those are the stars. And the truth of the matter is that even those stars don't have a legitimate complaint. The university provides them with trainers, resources, and coaching staff who develop those players to the point that they are good enough to play at the next level where they will earn millions. The school does more for them than they do for the school and it's not even close. If they disagree, they're welcome to forego college athletics, and go at it on their own to try and make it to the next level. Good luck with that.

    I simply can't find any sympathy from some whining little brat that he CHOSE to play college athletics, but is throwing a fit because he's not getting enough money to buy a sweet car, have a bunch of jewelry and buy a bunch of clothes or go out to the bar. If you think you're getting a raw deal, stop playing your sport, and join the rest of the student body in shelling out 50k per year for the education. If you aren't willing to do that then STFU and play ball.
     
  17. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    Johnny Manziel couldn't go to the NFL last year. In the NBA, there are students that simply go over the Europe. That just doesn't happen in football. The NCAA knows there is no other great option for students to get into the NFL. The NCAA rules are there to protect the NCAA and not protect the students. The NCAA is using these students as much as it possible can to make the most money it can. Explotation of employees is a very common reason for people to go on strike.



    Why can't these students make money off their likeness? Why can't they sell me a signature for $5?

    In no way am I suggesting that all of these athletes just get paid more. The only thing I'm suggesting is that these students not be locked down and be given the ability to exploit the current skills they have. The schools are using their names to make money, why can't the students do the same thing?
     
  18. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    First of all this is all about the money. All the other stuff is a smoke screen. If you hide behind the "safety" issue, especially right now while it's a hot topic, you can take care of the money once you have the union formed.

    Even if you accept that this is about safety, they are welcome to either participate or not in the sport (and we better just be talking about football here then too). It's well known the risks they're taking by playing. They can accept them or not. It's akin to people who smoke. If you started in 1940 prior to cigs being linked to cancer, you have a point. For anyone under the age of 65 who smokes is well aware and has accepted the risk. Same thing with todays football players.

    Also if a scholarship is compensation, I'm assuming Mr. Coulter will be receiving a 1099 for his $250,000 education? Have fun paying that tax bill buddy!

    The whole thing is a joke. You either accept the scholarship, play football, or you don't feel that you're being compensated fairly for your time risk and effort and choose to not play. You don't accept the scholarship then whine and complain about exploitation and suggest that you should receive even more special treatment, ultimately at the expense of your fellow student who is shelling out big bucks to get his/her education.
     
  19. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    So if you accept that these players could not go to the NFL by any means other than attending a college and playing college football, then you must also accept that the college provided the resources and platform that they do for these players to develop their talents and be noticed, all free of charge, which leads to the player making millions of dollars as a professional. Now tell me again how these players are being pimped?

    If the athletes believe they could do it without those resources and coaches, then they are welcome to forego college, and workout and train on their own, with the ability to charge for autographs, appearances, sign any endorsement they want. Of course who wants an autograph from some guy they've never heard of or seen play?

    The number one pick in the NFL draft last year was an OT who was a guy who showed up on campus as a freshman as a TE weighing 215lbs. and had never played OL. I can assure you that without the resources that CMU provided for him, he'd never be where he is today. Tell me who benefitted more from that arrangement?
     
  20. vegas_or_bust

    vegas_or_bust High-Roller

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    It should also be noted that football and men's basketball (the only 2 revenue producing sports) fund all of the other 20+ sports at most Division 1 Universities. If you start using the revenue received from football to pay the players, what happens to the other sports that relied on that money to remain viable? My guess is that they will either be eliminated, or tuition will be increased for regular students to help replace the money that is now being distributed to the football players.
     
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