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Increase avg bet, decrease play time - effects on comps??

Discussion in 'Comps' started by RiddickBull, Jul 15, 2013.

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  1. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Last time I was in Vegas, my average bet was about $350. I played for 2-4 shoes per day for 3 days. For my next trip, I want to play larger hands for a shorter amount of time. My plan is to play $1500-2000 per hand. Instead of playing for 2-4 shoes per day, I want to get up 3-5 hands then quit for the day. I want to repeat this process for 3 days as I will be there.

    Will this effect my corporate offers and comp level? I know the amount of play time matters. It may take me 10 minutes or 2 shoes to get up 3-5 hands. How will it look in the system if I play 30 min per day with much bigger hands? My average bet will significantly increase. However, my theoretical will most likely decrease.
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I think you just answered your own question. If your theo is less, your offers are likely to be less. I mean, if you are looking to get up three hands, that might take two minutes. You'll be lucky if they rate you at all for that kind of hit and run. You may go an entire trip playing no more than a couple dozens hands over three days. I wouldn't expect any kind of comps. But if you're winning big, who needs em
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    lower theo = lower comps. if you sit down for 5-10 hands, you'll likely be rated for about 3-5 minutes and even if it's a 2k avg, it won't do much for your theo. rinse and repeat and you have 1 hour of play at 2k avg over 3 days. that's nothing in terms of theo.

    however, if you get lucky and are able to chop around for a few hours at that higher avg, your theo will increase and you'll see a nice bump in the comps. it's great when you have a couple of big trips in a row and all of those "no" answers from your host suddenly turn into "sure no problem". I had a huge trip last year when I went on a heater and pressed hard and racked up about 5x more theo than I had normally been and the next 3-4 trips I had no problem getting whatever I wanted.
     
  4. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    If your intent is to win by doing short hit and run sessions, then I say don't worry about it hurting your comps at all. At $2,000 a hand, being up 5 hands in a day, and repeat it for 3 days will net you a win of about $30,000.

    I would rather be up $30,000 for the trip and show only 1 1/2 hr of play than to play longer hours and not be up.

    Since you are up, you can certainly afford to pay for all those things that you would have been comped anyway.

    Then again, your plan may be easier said than done.

    Please, please take my advice and not play for the comps. In the long run, you will more than have paid for those "comps."

    As experienced as I am at gambling, even I have a very hard time stopping. For example, most recently, I played at about $2,000 a hand for about 18 hours non-stop. I earned great tier credits, etc. ensuring of my continued elite status.

    I was up close to $35,000 after about 3 hours of play, but I decided to continue to play longer bc I foolishly believed that I could get more and that I was willing to give a little of it back to as I was playing with house money. Well, at the end of the 18 hours, I lost the winnings as well as my bankroll, but I earned a lot of comps and tier points. I tell ya, it wasn't a great feeling.

    Realistically, almost every time that I have played, I would be up at some point. It may not be 30k, but it would be up a couple of K. More often than not, I would continue to play, only to give it back and then some. Now, had I quit after those small wins, I would be up for the year. But as "luck" would have it, I am down a lot for the year.

    I do recall however, the 2 or three times that I did hit and run sessions. Those times, I was up because I did not play more. I showed very little action, though. Unfortunately, after you have "earned" certain status and play at a certain level, it is really hard not to go back and play when you are up, especially while you are in or near a casino environment.

    I hope you take this suggestion: It is always better to be up a few K and show very little action then to show a lot of action and have nothing to show.

    Another thing to consider is that the bigger you play, the potential of incurring larger losses will also increase. Also, once you go up to the $1,000 + a hand level, it is really hard to go back down to a couple of hundred a hand.

    I am not proud of my foolishness, but if my losses can help a person change his/her mindset about playing for comps, then I am happy.
     
  5. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Thanks for all 3 of your responses.

    Are hit and runs frowned upon by the casino? Should I give them my Mlife card when I play?
     
  6. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I would definitely give my card. You don't know how long your hit-and-run session is going to be and that is some serious coin. Plus if you lose at least they'll be able to record it and you might get something back in comps just for the loss.

    Would they even let you play 2k per hand without being rated? In AC they have signs on the tables saying they can limit you to 1k (plus just 1 hand I think) if you don't want to be rated.
     
  7. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    1. Your host and the casino love it when you show them lots of hours. You are often told that your comps are based on length of play and average bet, and that it doesn't matter if you win or lose. Well, the theory behind your playing long hours is that the longer you play, the likelihood of you giving back what you won and then some increases drastically. (I can attest to this phenomenon, unfortunately).

    2. If you don't give them your Mlife card, you won't be rated and you won't earn any comps, period.

    Unless you are going bet really, really small that any rating would not help much, I would always give them my card. If you play at $1,500-$2,000 a hand, and you don't give a card, you will draw some attention.

    If you play blackjack and you keep winning based on those hit and run sessions, they may ban you from playing blackjack and accuse you of card counting, whether your are indeed counting cards or not. Blackjack is the only table game whereby if you keep winning and winning, they will eventually cut you off.

    However, if you intend to do the hit and run sessions at other table games like bac or Pai Gow, you can do all the hit and runs you want and win as consistently as possible, you most likely won't be cut off. I knew of a player who would win $10,000 a week playing bac for a whole year, and she was never cut off.

    So, the long answer to your question of are hit and run sessions frowned upon by the casino? It may be if you mostly play bj, especially if you keep winning. Also, it will affect your comps since you are not putting in the time.
     
  8. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Great. I will show them my Mlife card. I only play baccarat, no BJ.
     
  9. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    That's a good question. I do not know. What type of attention would it bring if I did not give them my card?
     
  10. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    The question you ought to ask yourself is why would you not give them your card, especially if you are betting $1,000. Casino may think you may have something to hide, whether you do or not.

    Trust me, I have sat at tables when someone comes in with a ton of cash and bet big and not give their card, I always see the pit on the phone for a little while longer. Heck, some pit will insist that you can't play if you don't have a card. Others will let you play a couple of hands and then stop you once you reach into your pocket to put more cash in, even though you are losing. All of these I have witnessed.

    Let's say you are winning, and you go to the cage to cash it out, having a player card whereby they can verify the money you are cashing will make things go much faster.

    I am beginning to feel that I should not answer any more questions as I don't what to give any suggestions for those who may have some ideas on how to "game the system."
     
  11. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Frankly, who cares. To me, all comps are bonus. There is no law that says we are entitled to them. If your goal is to beat the casino and try to get a big win in a few hands, then don't be concerned about whether the casino likes your tactics
     
  12. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    this was a great post, but I can't reiterate this statement enough. betting bigger and winning is like crack. the higher you bet, when you feel that rush of the win, it makes it extremely hard to ever be satisfied with those "measly" $300 bets ever again. I had some good luck and pressed my bets to the 10-20k level a couple of trips last year and ever since I have a hard time ever betting under $1-2k now. it takes 3-5k or more to really get me going. it just doesn't feel the same with a $300-500 bet anymore - win or lose. it's a slippery slope for sure.
     
  13. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Not really frowned on, they just earn almost zero theo.

    With your strategy, you are bound to start off losing one of the days and will wind up digging in and playing a long session. You don't know when this will be so you should get rated.

    I have always thought that half the time at twice the avg bet is equivalent in terms of comps. There is an issue, though, when the play is very very short they really don't want to do anything for you. (15 minutes at $10,000/hand won't get you anything, but 2 hours at $1000 is like 10 hours at $200)
     
  14. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Then again, you could be down a still small number of hands and be out $30,000
     
  15. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    Impossible!! How can he lose with such a fool-proof plan? :)

    My point was if he can win in those short hit and run sessions, go with them instead of trying to stretch out the play to earn comps and lose any winnings that he may have won.
     
  16. Goosey

    Goosey Low-Roller

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    I think it depends on how much established history you have at the resort. I find that a high bet average "can" trigger some better offers. But at the end of the day, you might not be rated at all if you all you do is play 3-5 hands. You might get rated if you play 2-3 hands right off the bat and then wait to play #4 and #5. But if you bust out quickly you might not get rated. If you wait to bet you might not get rated. So be careful.

    Really though, at your usual level of play, why worry about corporate offers? You can get a host to take care of you easy.
     
  17. casinoboy

    casinoboy Low-Roller

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    what if you loose?
     
  18. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    you will get rated even if you only play 5 hands, but, like I said, it will be 3 minutes or something like that. I've done it and had ratings like that in the system.
     
  19. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    He/She would keep playing until they hit their LL or until they get up 3-5 hands...
     
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