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Table Games In BJ, what are the better rules on 17?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by cjlangston, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. cjlangston

    cjlangston Tourist

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    S17 or H17?

    Assuming all else is equal (number of decks, 3:2, similar other rules) does S17 give you an appreciable edge over H17? If so, by a large enough amount to stay away from H17?
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Yes
     
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  3. cjlangston

    cjlangston Tourist

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    thanks...can you expand on that a bit?
     
  4. Patman

    Patman Tourist

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    Go here and set your game parameters and just change S17 and H17 to see the difference for whatever variable you want.
    http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/
    Looks like about a 0.21% difference.
    Hard to find S17 on the lower limit games. Last time I think it was at least $50 or up at Bellagio if I remember right, if not even $100.
     
  5. JakeF

    JakeF Tourist

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    Aria had $25 min S17 when I was there in April.
     
  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Not sure what there is to expand upon. Patman's link has the details. The difference is appreciable
     
  7. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    What I've noticed during play is this: S17 is a far better rule when the Ace is showing for the dealer.
    When the 6 is showing, not so much.
    Too often with S17, you see the 6 and properly stand on your 12 - 16. Then BAM - you lose to a 17.
    With H17, at least you still have a chance that the dealer will bust.

    But, with the Ace showing, the worst you will do is push, so long as you haven't busted.
    I trust the wizard's math, so I'm sure there's an overall advantage for the player on the S17 game...but I guess I just don't care as much as others do.
    DAS, to me, is far more important to have.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  8. Jerry Snuggit

    Jerry Snuggit Tourist

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    17 is the worst hand a dealer can end with, except busto. So the majority of the time you want them to stop on 17, instead of trying to improve. Since they can only hit Soft 17s, the dealer will never bust on the next card, and usually has 2 chances to improve the hand.

    Topcard, we have all had the experience when our double down came up short and we lost to a soft 17, and we wished the dealer would hit again. But while those are painful and stick in our memory, the dealer hitting on soft 17 actually hurts us more often.
     
  9. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    I'm not sure I'd call it appreciable for the recreational player. It improves the house edge to hit a soft 17 by 0.19%. I wouldn't go out of my way or play at a higher minimum than normal just for this rule change but if everything else is equal and you have the choice play the game where the dealer hits the s17.
     
  10. iskion1

    iskion1 Tourist

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    Ballys has a 6 deck shoe game where dealer stands on soft 17, pays 3-2, offers surrender and you can dbl after split & re-split aces. It's a $25 min in what they call their high limit area.