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Table Games I'm cleaning up on All Small/All Tall

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Rush, Apr 22, 2014.

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  1. lucky13

    lucky13 Low-Roller

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    I have won the all tall/all small bet a few times ......much "easier" to win than the fire bet
     
  2. BackInVegas

    BackInVegas VIP Whale

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    I like the all small, the all tall, the all, and the fire bet.

    Heck, I play the lottery and those offer better odds.
     
  3. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Personally I think the AT/AS is a better entertainment value than the firebet. I'd say about 60% of the time you get at least close to hitting one of the bets. The firebet provides no entertainment value at all until you have the 4th different point set, which might happen about 2-3% of the time. You still have a chance for a nice payout on the AT/AS but the odds aren't so bad of even hitting the lowest payout like the firebet.

    For those who don't like it because of the 7 on the come out, I avoid that by simply betting whatever my passline is. On a $10 table, I'll go 3-4-3 on the AT/AS. If the seven comes the bets just cancel each other out.
     
  4. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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    I'll admit it...I set the dice to the famous "hardway set" after the comeout. I try to shoot from either directly stick right or stick left to put less distance between myself and the wall. I try to follow through and get correct "rotation" of the dice in the air. I try to land the dice softly just in front of the wall bumpers...I basically try to practice all those things "dice setters" are supposed to practice...

    Does it make me more successful? As was noted above,with such a small sample size, its impossible to reach any certain conclusion. But do I feel more confident and positive about my rolls when I use these "Best Practices"? Without a doubt! Anyone who thinks confidence in a casino is a trivial trait hasn't spent much time in a casino, IMO...

    Now the debate about whether this is delusional, useless, or worse can go on ad infinitum...But if I'm even slightly affecting the outcome to my advantage, how can that be bad? Where is the harm, provided I'm still using a conservative betting strategy and gving the house only the smallest advantage? If you 're familiar with philosophy at all, it's similar to Pascals Wager...It does no harm to practice "proper" dice sets...
     
  5. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I agree that by betting enough on the pass line is the way to hedge this bet except you are using a bet with a player advantage to insure a bet with a 8% house advantage.

    I do play the a/t/s bet I just don't play it every chance it is available.
     
  6. jhpa

    jhpa VIP Whale

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    I love the firebet and will never play a table with a firebet without putting at least $1 on it. I like the ATS as well, but no places around me (PA and AC) have it so it is not much of an issue for me.

    I have no problem with people setting dice or throwing with a certain motion, etc. I do it myself. It is part of the rituals of the game that separate craps from any other game in the casino. But I do it out of fun. I do it out of superstition. I have absolutely no belief that it will impact the outcome of the dice.

    My only complaint is against those who profit by selling books or seminars with the stated expectation that you can influence the outcome of the dice. These are snake-oil salesmen preying on the un-educated.

    As for those who build craps mockups in their basements and spend hours perfecting their rolling technique: get a life!
     
  7. woodsie

    woodsie VIP Whale

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    Keep at it for a few more years and get back to us. People scoffing at the notion of dice setting are trying to help you see reality, not attack your good fortune.

    You wouldn't be the first guy to think he's got craps beat and then have a lucky streak to incorrectly affirm that belief. You sound just like every other guy out there making that claim yet the number of gamblers who have made and kept a confirmed fortune playing craps is zero. Lots of guys have lost fortunes chasing that fictitious edge though.

    If you really do have an edge, then come back to us in a year when you've quit your job to gamble full time and can post a screen shot of a 7 figure Merrill Lynch account. I don't think you'll be back.
     
  8. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    Ummh, what about the legendary "Captain" of Golden Touch?
     
  9. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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    I'm not trying to be snarky here, and I know I'm in the minority...I'm just going to state my opinion: I believe "Controlled Rolling" or "Rhythmic Rolling" is a skill that can be learned and taught, just like pitching a baseball, tossing horshoes etc. I believe there could be a "potentially small "advantage to be gained using such a method, provided one is well practiced and skilled. I do not believe you can quit your day job and own the west wing of a casino using such a method.::cry:

    I'll give a small piece of evidence for justification of said belief. How many times have you heard a craps dealer say "Hit the back wall please, sir" "All the way down to the end sir" etc. I've even been reprimanded for moving my hand past the center lay out on the follow through on my toss!

    Are the casinos being paranoid? Perhaps. Are they worried about dice cheats "sliding" the dice? Certainly. But perhaps they also believe that craps, being a unique game where the players get to handle the equipment, they might wish to be careful and not scoff at the possibility that a skilled player could hurt them a bit? Again...I know most will laugh at this opinion..whatever floats your boat. :peace:
     
  10. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    I'm actually of the same opinion. It's hard to believe someone can't believe something like this can be achieved with hand-eye-coordination. Titanic Thompson could throw a key across the room and put it into a lock. Could anyone do this? Not at all. Could it be practiced and some improve their odds of doing it? Certainly. Would it still be a difficult task? Absolutely.

    I think some when they hear dice setting it conjures images of some guy thinking he's going to walk into a casino, win a million dollars on a single roll without hitting a seven and being able to do this on a consistent basis. Some bringing down the house scenario. The idea is far from that though. It's more along the lines of hitting a seven 995 times out of 6000 rolls.
     
  11. coolpacific

    coolpacific Low-Roller

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    I gamble with fun money. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. I know the house edge in the games I play; BJ, Craps and VP and set loss limits. I only gamble in Vegas, despite many options for gambling where I live.

    I have no expectation of a financial return on anything in life besides my job and my investments. If I thought it were possible to beat the casino, I would add that to the list.

    Edit: I enter the casino to have fun and "maybe" win... nothing more.
     
  12. coolpacific

    coolpacific Low-Roller

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    The point of hitting the back wall is that the "alligator" randomizes the dice. It's a 36 outcome RNG. If that wall were flat I would give "dice setters" the time of day, however, the casino would NEVER offer craps if they didn't have the advantage of a random roll of the dice.
     
  13. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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    I think you just made my point for me...:thumbsup:
     
  14. coolpacific

    coolpacific Low-Roller

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    We agree then :peace:. If the casino will let a player roll without hitting the back wall that player can gain an advantage. That is what we agree on right?

    Now to locate such a casino.
     
  15. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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    Not to be doctrinaire or get too technical, but one of the main tenants of the (somewhat dubious) literature on "Controlled Throwing" of dice suggests that one of the two main components of success is landing the dice so that they barely graze those cleverly shaped pyramids...that's the skill, that's the art... creating the "illusion" that they hit the back wall while, in fact, barely grazing those cones.

    The other skill comes from trying to lessen the "degrees of freedom" while spining in the air...both are extremely difficult tasks to accomplish...hence a skill perhaps impossible to perfom consistently? Who knows? I've seen human athletes accomplish some amazing things...look at a basketball hoop and tell me how NBA players can get the ball to go through the hole sometimes...:peace:
     
  16. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    There's about an inch or so at the bottom of every craps table wall that lacks the "randomizer."

    Could you hit? Probably not every time. Especially a novice. The times that you do hit the randomizer you just have to get lucky enough not to hit the six ways to make a seven.

    Like I said, you're just trying to shave off one 7 every thousand or so rolls.
     
  17. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    And why wasn't the media all over the "Captain's" "legendary" roll of 147? They sure were when Patricia Demauro rolled 154 consecutive times. :rolleyes2:

    Frank Scoblete is a great writer and seems like a nice guy, but believing everything he writes is likely dangerous...
     
  18. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    Personally, I think Scoblete is an idiot and I really don't care for his writing style.

    Sorry Frank.
     
  19. jhpa

    jhpa VIP Whale

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  20. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

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