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I'm a hack, I don't need clubfitting

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by ken2v, Jul 17, 2014.

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  1. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I'm working on a couple articles, one about selecting hybrids and fairway woods. I had a teaching pro come back with a good line when I asked how he dealt with the person who invariably says he/she sucks too much to get fitted for clubs:

    "Tiger has more on the line, but he could find a way to play with your grandmothers clubs and you would suffer using his. So who needs it more?"

    And this isn't exactly new but not enough people get it: 14 clubs? The rules allow that many. Many should play with fewer. Extra weight. Wasted money. No need.

    That was a consensus, too, but most fervently stated by a retailer.
     
  2. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Golfers spend a ton of money thinking the clubs, or the ball, or the shoes, or the gloves are going to make them better. Learn to hit the ball correctly and you will get better, period, practice, practice, practice.

    Clubfitting? Maybe, if your clubs are misfitted I guess it might help, but the bottom line is they're gonna fit you and then sell you more gear, then you'll go out there and still suck and say "jesus, I just spent another $500 and I'm worse than before", then they'll quit the game. Most golfers should not buy another club for the next 10 years, just learn to hit the ones they have. How many buckets of balls can you hit for the price of that fancy putter that wont change a thing, cause you need to hit it closer, not improve your putting.
     
  3. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Maybe yes, maybe no. Like any other consumer decision, it might not be logical nor need to be logical, even if it turns out to be logical. Fly to Hawaii for vacation when you live by the beach? Drive a Toyota or the Lexus-badged Toyota? Go to Vegas and drink and gamble? Some people have kagillion dollar wood shops at home and make one birdhouse a year. Lotta folks get a kick out of restoring old cars.

    How about your game, merlin? What's your approach to it all? Have you found that equipment changes don't do you any good? You aren't a junkie who just likes it because? Kinda seems silly to just learn to hit a mis-fit club better when you can get one that fits and hit it even better; we're not talking players here with the skill level to both know why a club is doing what it is doing and with the physical wherewithal to manipulate it to do what they want. Certainly not for every player or wallet, but nothing wrong with tinkering, either. Again, we all do things others think rather looney.

    Why take tennis lessons since you're never going to make it to Wimbledon, anyway? Special TV package to catch every NBA game or a movie channel? TV works fine without either. For some.
     
  4. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I am one who plays without fitted clubs simply because I don't play enough to spend the money to get them tailored to me. I find something that is comfortable and I will adjust to the equipment. If I played much more then I would invest in fitting and customizing my clubs.

    But then again I also believe that I could play with a driver, four iron, seven iron, PW, SW and putter. Those are the clubs I use most. I trust my four iron more than any fairway wood so I use that because of the comfort I have with the club.
     
  5. Ty

    Ty ?

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    I pretty-much agree with this. If you're a person of average height, strength, hand size, and swing speed an off-the-shelf set of cavity-backed irons and a couple of woods will get you off to a good start. Learn to hit a tee-shot that stays in the fairway (don't worry about the distance), and practice the short game. Spend more time practicing the shorter,not longer, clubs. The shots inside 100 yards are the most important. Pitching, chipping, putting is where its at.

    Maybe not keep your clubs 10 years, but develop a game first.

    The more I practice the luckier I get, I'd rather be lucky than good. Some dude said that.
     
    Christmas Trip. Sam's Town & MSS
  6. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    I've got a good driver now i hit well(for me) had it maybe 5 years now, got a new set of irons last year(used) to replace my 15 year old ones, I hit them a little further(a little), but i cant honestly say i hit them better( I'm a tad disappointed). My putter I've had a long time(maybe 12 years)

    Now I'm 54 so I should be getting worse, not better, but what really helped me was 8 or 10 years ago i just decided I couldn't stand hitting the shots I did, chunking, slicing, shanking, etc. So i decided to hit down on the ball, not sweeping it, not trying to lift it, not hoping for the perfect pick from the grass( easier said than done). If you hit the ball, with the clubface, before you hit the ground, most of your shots are going to be ok. It's not that hard, if you hit a fair number of decent shots then you can hit a whole lot of them if you try. Now if you almost never hit a good shot then there's probably no hope, no matter what lessons or fitting you get.

    How many times do you see someone getting mad on the course, mad at the clubs, the course, the weather, the ball? All they need to do is STOP hitting the ground, stop topping it, stop shanking it, it's their swing .
     
  7. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Indeed, for many many people less would be more. My wife is a decent player. We had her fitted. Excluding putter she came out of it with a 9-club set. She has no gaps, she has no duplication, the two things that most recreational players have in spades in their bags. And it cost less than 13.

    I was fitted for a putter. I put better. It's demonstrable. I see it in my stats, my friends have been talking about it since I made the change. There are just certain physical specs that can get in the way. Why alter my putting stroke when I'm just not going to be able to repeat that? And the fitted putter cost the same as any other putter on the rack. Duh. Furyk's swing looks like hell. But it repeats. That's why good players can use shit better than we can. They have better skill sets, better acuity and they work at it all the time.
     
  8. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I'm 53. In worse shape than I was 10 years ago. I play better and I'm trending better. I don't practice at all but I do get in a lot of real-time practice on the course. I'll never be a 5, I have too many ingrained peculiarities. I understand the game better, I manage myself on the course better. I still get too many "others," I can't remember the last time I had a round without at least one birdie, I collect a lot of pars.

    40-50 percent of golfers spec to a standard configuration. The rest of the majority on either side are either a degree or bit of length off, almost all need to be lighter in the shaft flex. Rare is the bird who needs 1.5" at 4 degrees up, but that is a long way off from standard, and Joe Blow ain't gonna adapt to it like an Ernie Els (who can't putt as we saw horribly today).

    Not a lot of forged blades in the market, and haven't been for years, so a forgiving cavity back (or forging) is the default. All this high MOI and COR stuff has some basis in physics, but a lot of what's being touted by some of the companies is bullshit. (14 clubs, buying a new driver every model "year" or three.)

    As for off the rack: If a fitting is free and you are getting new clubs anyway, why not get them fitted? That's not saying everyone needs to dump there stuff and start again. But if changing things up because you haven't done it in ages, if swapping out something because you want to, why buy blind off the rack? No one is going to buy a club championship in the pro shop, but most play for a few better shots, anyway.
     
  9. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Good point about having a putter fitted...I hadn't thought of that but I could definitely benefit from it.

    I may buy a new set next spring and if the fitting isn't too expensive or even free then I will do it to see the difference!
     
  10. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I have a toe-down, heel-shafted blade as my gamer. I also have many other styles of putters I've picked up over the years, had given to me, won, what not. It is a tick shorter than the standard 35" though I am 6'1" and three degrees flat (though my irons are upright and a tick long). It works with my stroke -- open/square/closed --and posture. I have a $300+ whiz-bang thingy you see on tour all the time and it just sucks, for me.

    I've said it here many times, many many more in print, no one can buy a game. A visit to the Kingdom is not going to turn a 16 into a 4. But if have a 38" waist a pair of 36" or 40" slacks just aren't going to work as well for you. You can adapt, they can be made to work, but why bother if you are buying pants in the first place, just get 'em fitted.

    Shops and manufacturers vary, but it is possible to get a fitting for free. The depth and technology will vary, but you aren't buying blind off the rack and you do not have to go to, well, the Kingdom, either. Most manus will refund some or all of the fitting charge if they have one.

    My snapshot for most of us:

    1. Get a driver fitting. If there is any doubt, take your current gamer to some place with a (legit) launch monitor and tell them you want to kick the tires on a new stick. You'll need more loft, you'll need less shaft, you might want to get it cut down a hair.

    2. Putter. Get a good putter, not necessarily expensive, but a good putter that matches you and your eye.

    3. You don't need a gaggle of fairway woods and hybrids. For most, the FW is not an attacking club, it is a knock it down the fairway safely club. You probably only need one, it certainly needs more loft than you think.

    4. Get a hybrid or two you can hit to cover the distance gaps between your higher-lofted FW and whatever longest iron you can hit. (Lotta folks have a 3w, 5w, some hybrid and a long iron and all go about the same distance, most won't fly high enough, shed them.)

    5. Now that you've gotten rid of some superfluous clubs grab another wedge or two, don't go above 58 unless you practice like a madman.
     
  11. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Good stuff.

    I agree with not buying a game. I always chuckle to myself when I see guys decked out in the latest and most expensive equipment or accessories and they're hacking it up. Same applied when I played baseball...kids would have the latest greatest TPX or C-CORE bat and would sport paltry .189 averages.

    Your tips are very good. Like I said I am the definition of casual golfer but I want to play more. I love it. Just reading this has me thinking about playing this weekend.

    I'm also 6'1 and I find myself crouching too low in my putting stance in order to gain the best comfort level with the club. I prefer a more upright putting stance
     
  12. Slotchick

    Slotchick High-Roller

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    I am fairly new to golfing as I've only been playing since last February, we just play any day ending in "y". My starter set consisted of Yonex ladies flex irons and Taylormade driver/fairway woods that we picked up for a good price about 7 years ago when DH was hoping to get me golfing. They were not fitted and did the job nicely for my learning stages.

    Now that I've been golfing for a year and my cap is dropping consistently DH said it was time for lessons and new equipment. The Pro giving me my lessons told me to closet certain clubs as I had others in my bag that do the same thing and there was no sense carrying 2 clubs that do the same job. This has made club selection much easier as I only have the 1 club to choose for "x" distance.

    DH wanted to get me new equipment and so we went off and had me "fitted" recently. We found out that I fit ladies off the rack for most brands, but I should be using a men's senior flex due to my club-head speed. We ended up ordering me new irons in a men's senior shaft that are fitted to my height; I cannot wait until they arrive!! We also had DH's old Odyssey putter fitted for me as it was my choice for a putter.....and it still works :evillaugh
     
  13. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    It's interesting to hear pros echo these exact thoughts about their own game. There are distance control clubs and hit it as far as you can clubs. I often tinker with taking out the 3 and 5 wood and add in a 4 wood. It's not like I'm thinking "hhmmm, should I hit a 3w or 5w into an elevated green from 235 out. I have a love/hate relationship with the 3 hybrid. Sometimes it goes high and straight and sometimes it goes LEFT.

    Having read about most people using too little loft and too stiff a shaft in their driver, I lofted up and went to a R shaft. Went for a fitting and was told I need to loft down and go for a S shaft. I hit a friend's X stiff extra heavy shafted driver earlier this week and crushed it. Going to the fitter told me things I sorta already knew. I like heavy shafts, I'm a high spin player so I need lower/ lower launch spin clubs/shafts.

    When I pull the 3w and 5w and add the 4w to make room for an extra wedge, it's just causes me pain. The 60° wedge is more of a hate, hate, hate/love releationship. Every now and then I hit a tremendous shot with it but mostly I just suck and hit horrible shots that either go straight up in the air and land well short of target or I catch it a groove low and hit it a screamer over the green.

    All this fitting and science stuff is a fun part of the game for some folks but it don't mean a thing if ain't got a swing.
     
  14. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    While I am no hack I can vouch for the importance of club fitting. While I'm no Tiger Woods, I am sure I could slap it around with most peoples grandma's clubs and make it work but the difference in a fitted club is exponential. I'm a scratch player with scores ranging this season from 67 to 80. My irons are older Titleist 735 CM, 3* flat with Project X 6.5s in them and the lofts are adjusted to fit well with my wedges and cover all gaps and the difference in them and the rental set I used during that round of 80 were insane. I felt like I beginner with the rental set in my hands, I could feel how upright the rentals were and continually hit shots left from being toe-up. The swing weight was totally off from my normal set. Then you get to the shafts which I tried about 8 different shafts before choosing the Project X 6.5 and the rentals flew about 10 yards shorter than I'm used to with a terrible (in my opinion) ball flight and felt like I was hitting a 2 x 4. I get that most amateurs won't be able to tell the difference in swing weight, true weight, or the lie angle at least with the naked eye but I bet they could tell in results.

    So while I don't fit the "hack" profile, I can still vouch that fitting is important and absolutely believe EVERY player would benefit from a fitting to at least some extent. I understand those that don't want to pay for it if they don't play much but if you play more than 5-10 times a year it is well worth any cost to get something fit for you. You definitely won't regret it.
     
  15. UTE

    UTE Plastics

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    I think the vast majority of golfers commenting won't be "hacks" simply due to differing levels of interest in the game. For example, I've never commented on these golf threads before for the simple reason I don't take the sport seriously. To me, golf is merely a social sport wherein I can hang out with friends. As such, I only want to be competent enough to keep up and don't feel the need to improve my game or worry about the score. In other words, this "hack" is comfortable where he's at. Having said that, I can understand how others get into the game and take it seriously. In fact, I think that's great - any hobby or sport that generates such intensity is rewarding. The vibe is just not there for me - but I do enjoy the company of my friends when we're playing. As long as you enjoy yourselves, my friends - that's what it's all about.

    Bill
     
  16. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    No reason not to get fitted, as Golfsmith offers a FREE half hour fitting session. You can spend money on a more detailed one, but as someone who shoots in the 90s, I went with the free one. Nothing too fancy, just some basic measurements, impact tape, etc. For me, it resulted in a 1.5" longer shaft and lie angle of 3 degrees upright (a white dot on the Ping fitting system; I bought i15s a couple summers ago). The grips are slightly thicker than standard as well, though I don't remember the exact measurements.

    My club specs bring me to my other point, which is the farther you are from average height (~5'10" for American men), the more important it is that you get fitted. I'm 6'5", so stock clubs are clearly not properly sized for me. If you are over 6' or under 5'8" or so, you are really doing yourself a disservice by not getting fitted, regardless of skill level.

    And again, it's FREE at Golfsmith (no I don't work for them) :peace:
     
  17. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    You know the old saying"it's not the arrow,it's the indian". I think that holds true for beginners and high handicappers in particular. The neighbor who taught me to play was a 2 and he spent 6 months first showing me the basics then making me hit ball after ball for 6 months. His line was " you're not going out on the course and embaress me until I say you're ready". I wish more people would follow this path before playing on a course.
    I do see the value for better players having clubs fitted , ,who doesnt want to pick up a few strokes. My buddy just bought a used set of Taylor irons that were 8 years old or so.Brand new they retailed for $1200,so they discontinued them after 2 years. He picked them up for $150, like new. He loves them and after hitting a couple of clubs ,I wouldnt mind having them .No one has mentioned ball selection,but in this area where the temp varies from hot to cold it can matter just for that reason.
     
  18. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    I think hackers should learn about the proper way to hit the ball with a downward blow, except for drivers, before getting all tied up with fitted clubs.

    The pros I have taken lessons from never showed how and why and the simple physics of club construction.

    Millions of frustrated hackers never know that they are scoopers and that is why they suck. The rank beginner just can't figure that out. Once you learn the right way, it's like a miracle.

    I think for the beginner, this is more important than fitted clubs. Until you are approaching the lower teens in handicap, the AVERAGE person, not the millionaire country club flub-a-dub, is better off with a set of K-Mart clubs.
     
  19. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I just don't agree. Why handicap yourself right out the chute? No one learns to surf by hitting the North Shore of Oahu in winter the first time out. In the '70s we didn't learn to ski on 210s though a few years later that was my GS ski of choice (WAY different game in that sport now).

    And it's not an either/or proposition, not these days. Sure, if you were brought to the game 30 or more years ago you were handed a heavy, unforgiving forged club and an imbalanced marshmallow for a ball, unless you were handed a RockFlite and then you got an imbalanced hunk of concrete for a ball. Today, third-tier manufacturers make better stuff than all-mighty Wilson did c. 1963. Yes, most do start out with something borrowed or cheap, but if you get the bug, there is what downside to getting as soon as you can to clubs that fit, work for you vs. against you. Only Ben Hogan could figure it out digging it out of the dirt, hands bloodied. It's not 1950 any more.

    Instruction and proper sticks just makes sense.

    A large percentage of avid players simply cannot or will not work on their game. For tons, I'd say the majority, of average recreational players, it is a came of compromises. Too inflexible or weak in the core to maintain posture so you hit lots of weak high shots to the fade side? A half inch of length beyond standard and a couple ticks up in lie angle and that ball will move more toward the center of the club face; it's just basic physics. Closer to the center is straighter higher farther and that's what appeals to huge numbers of players, the thought and sight of a better-struck shot; they don't give a rip about playing in the member-guest. SHOULD that person work out, stretch? Well, there's something all of us should do, in whatever realm, that would be "good" for us.
     
  20. zamboni

    zamboni VIP Whale

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    My bag- 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 PW SW Ping Zing Black Dots

    Cobra Amp Cell Driver

    Cobra Amp Cell 3-4 Hybrid

    Cheap Tour Select 5 Wood

    Scotty Cameron Monterey California putter.

    I did the fitting on the Ping site and the Black Dots fit me pretty well.
     
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