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Table Games I have several questions about baccarat. Having never played

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by ND80, Sep 19, 2014.

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  1. ND80

    ND80 Low-Roller

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    i know nothing about the game. Is it only for high rollers? is it difficult to learn and why the appeal to a lot of the posters here?
     
  2. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    I like baccarat for the following reasons:
    1) It has a relatively low casino edge (Betting on Banker is 1%, and Player is 1.4%). So the game is essentially like flipping a coin.
    2) There is no thinking involved, except picking Banker, or Player. (There are other bets like Ties, but this is an 11% edge for the house so it is a sucker bet).
    3) Mini-bac can be FAST, so you can get 70 to 80 hands from a shoe, and this will take 45 to 60 minutes. So if you like your action fast, you can get it with Bac.
    4) I like to bet using a system, and in Baccarat, you are essentially betting on streaks of Banker wins or Player wins, or on choppy action when Banker and Player are trading off.
    5) Playing Midi-Baccarat, where you can touch the cards and flip them over any way you want to, can be a LOT of fun when played with the right people.
    Try to watch some of the Asian guys playing, and you will see them turning just one corner at a time, trying to "guess" what the card is,
    and if they see hints of a bad number, they will blow on the card to try to blow away the extra pip etc.
    This really can heighten the excitement, and if everyone is betting the same way, can be great group fun, similar to craps.
    6) Also, with Midi-Bac, you can control the pace of the game, and this can increase your time at the table for the purpose of calculating Theo.
    7) Baccarat usually starts at $25 minimum on Strip. The lowest I have seen is $15 at Mohegan Sun in Connecticut.
    So, I guess it is not for super low rollers, but if you have a bank roll of $1000, you can have a decent chance of winning by playing $25 Mini-Bac.
    8) Finally, I think Baccarat has the best phrase in gambling: "Monkey!" when you want to see a face card or 10. (one of the Jacks has a face that looks like a Monkey).
    So it is really funny to see these otherwise staid and impassive Asians, males and females, pounding the table and shouting "MONKEE! MONKEE!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  3. ND80

    ND80 Low-Roller

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    Thanks! Sounds like a lot of fun. Mini bac would be right up my alley. I'll have to take your suggestion and watch some of it first. My bankroll for my upcoming trip would allow me to give it a try.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [
     
  4. buckeyestud

    buckeyestud Low-Roller

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    Thanks for the detailed summary, Triple. I've got an 4 upcoming night stay at Cosmo and typically like to spread my play out between Craps, BJ, VP and occasionally Roulette but after realizing how bad the edge is on I figured I'd rather play Baccarat instead. On my last trip in May I would throw 50 on red/black and martingale (or play for even) until I came out +50 and once I would hit I'd go get a "comped" breakfast at The Henry. Worked great until a cold streak wiped my previous days' winnings. :) Seeing as I haven't spent any time in the Baccarat tables, would it be OK for this type of hit and run or is it considered bad manners.. I could do the same at pass/don't pass but I tend to stay away unless I'm ready to play for awhile.
     
  5. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    You can hit and run at Baccarat.
    I also Martingale and if the table is choppy I do very well.
     
  6. buckeyestud

    buckeyestud Low-Roller

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    Thanks - odds are certainly better there. Do you normally cap your betting after a certain # of losses? What is the max number of hands you have seen lose in a row? Seems like it can be easy to get to 10 losses if you play frequently and if table limit and bankroll is not a concern.
     
  7. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    someone explain "freeplay" in midi bacc to me, I was watching Pleepleus play last month in the HL room at cosmo and he'd just say freeplay like 3 or more times in a row and the dealer would just dealer hands without bets going out
     
  8. mrem3200

    mrem3200 High-Roller

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    If the casino edge is higher on the player why would you bet that side? Does it pay better?
     
  9. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I hear it referred to as a "free hand", not freeplay. Its just a hand dealt without betting. Remember baccarat players usually look for patterns so sometimes they want to see the outcome of a hand without betting on it.

    The house edge on player is around 0.18% higher. Its a decent difference but nothing crazy. It would be pretty boring to just keep betting banker for that small difference. Banker is going to win only about 1% more often than player.
     
  10. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    yeah you're right he was actually saying free hand , I mis-remembered
    is there a limit to how many times you can say that before betting again?
     
  11. cjlangston

    cjlangston Tourist

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    I am also interested to learn more...is there strategy involved in placing your bet?
     
  12. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    It depends on the table. In the HL room, they will let you see as many free hands as you please. On the casino floor, they limit your free hands. The amount depends on the pit boss. The pitboss let me see 1 free hand at the beginning of the shoe (at MB) at the $25 min table He started bitching then I left. Other casinos where the pit bosses are better will let you see much more.

    Triple summed it very well.

    For people who want to start, I've seen $10 bac at Luxor. I heard downtown has $5 mini. Most casinos start at $25. Palazzo has stadium (live baccarat where you place bets on computer screens) baccarat for $5 min.

    Once you learn the game, I would recommend midi where you can touch the cards. It changes the game. Some people don't like it though. Some drivers drive like tomorrow while others crash the car and everyone loses.
     
  13. mrem3200

    mrem3200 High-Roller

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    How is this game any different than BJ or craps where streaks are part of the game? Either the dealer is killing you or he isn't. Either the shooter is hot or his isn't. How is that any different in bac? I am not saying you are wrong I just don't know enough about it to understand your comment about why it is better.
     
  14. RedRiverRose

    RedRiverRose Low-Roller

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    Pay Triple great answer. Makes me want to give it some play.
     
  15. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    You can choose who you want to bet with (banker vs player). If the dealer is drawing players, bet player. If the dealer is drawing bankers. bet banker.

    Good thing is someone can't mess up the shoes when they join or burn a card when they switch dealers.
     
  16. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    1) Yes, I don't chase more than 5 losses in a row, at which point you would be down 31 units.
    But it depends on where I stand win-loss wise overall.
    For example, if I am just starting to play, I won't chase more than 3 losses in a row, at which point I would be down 7 units.
    You can easily grind your way back from being down 7 units.
    But it I am up, say 25 units, then I will start to chase up to 5 losses in a row, since after I lose, I would only be down 6 units over all (-31 minus +25 )
     
  17. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    Since I use negative progression, i.e. Martingale, it is easier to just play Player.
    On the Bank, you have to pay a 5% commission when you win, this is how the casino gets its edge on the Bank bet, so you actually get paid LESS per Banker win, but you will win more hands (maybe 51 Banker hands to 49 Player out of every hundred, I am sure the Wizard of Odds site has the exact numbers).
    They have special small chips that they use to keep track of how much commission you owe when you are betting on Banker.
    When I am doubling my bet, it gets difficult to try to compensate for the commission.

    Also, I can imaging nightmare scenarios like going all in on a Banker bet, then losing all my money,
    and oops, I forgot I still had to pay off the commission on previous winning Banker bets,
    and I would have to sell my watch to pay off the commission!
     
  18. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    It is true that there will be "hot streaks" in all of these games.
    In Baccarat, it is very easy to know where those streaks stand, since they will give you a piece of paper to do the charting,
    and usually there is an electronic board tracking all the Player and Banker wins.
    Baccarat is as close to flipping a coin as you can get in a casino game, so you can clearly track how many Players in a row and how many Bankers in a row have occurred.

    In Blackjack, you will actually LOSE a significantly more hands than you win, which is why the casino has to give you extras like paying 3:2 on a BJ, and allowing you to double down in "good" situations. I think the breakdown is something like 53 Dealer to 47 Player wins (Wizard of Odds should have actual numbers).
    Thus, in BJ, you are much more likely to have long Dealer win streaks, which will wipe you out when you try to Martingale.
    Also, you might have doubling opportunities, such as getting an 11 against a dealer 6.
    You would obviously double down, BUT now this messes up your Martingale accounting.

    With respect to Craps, although taking the Pass/Don't Pass with full odds gives you one of the lowest house advantages (about 0.45% with 3-4-5 odds),
    it is NOT straight forward like flipping a coin.
    After a point is set, there is about 3:2 chance that the Don't Pass will win.
    This is why the true odds pay MORE on the Pass side, and you have to lay more on the Don't Side to win less.
    Also, it could take several to many minutes for your bet on the Pass/Don't Pas to actually resolve, depending on the how hot the roll is.
    Thus, it is not straight forward to Martingale in Craps.
     
  19. ND80

    ND80 Low-Roller

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    On the midi version is there an advantage to touching the cards or just makes it more fun?
     
  20. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    Oh yeah, You can change the cards by peeling slow, blowing on cards and tinking.......

    It's just more fun from a scientific viewpoint, no difference.
     
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