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How to get CHEAPEST price at Car Dealership?

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by TIMSPEED, Jan 23, 2015.

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    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Aug 8, 2013
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    So, in the coming months, I think the wife and I are finally going to purchase that Hyundai Elantra we've been wanting...
    I see varied prices online from $17,680 - $20,200...
    My max price I'm willing to pay is $18k OUT THE DOOR.
    What do I need to do to make this happen?
    Speak to a certain person?
    Walk in with $18k in CASH?
    Choke a few fuckers?

    EDIT: I've bought/sold a lot of cars...just never to a dealer before...
    Annual Christmas in Vegas!
  2. tvon

    tvon VIP Whale

    Jan 14, 2004
    Boston, Ma
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    I used true car when i considered a new car. I ended up with a used car so I didnt use it.. Buts a good tool to get other dealers to bid against each other. Always best to do your negotiation from home. truecar.com
  3. hammie

    hammie VIP Whale

    Sep 18, 2006
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Get the Mazda3

    Find the car in the color and options you want online and negotiate with the internet sales agent so when you walk into the dealership there is no BS extra charges for undercoating and dealer add on charges.

    Good luck, I haven't bought a new car in 10 years, I am back to driving my $3k 1998 Volvo S70 I picked up 5 years ago, best heated seats ever made, almost like a recliner.
  4. Piggylane

    Piggylane Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Quabbin Reservoir, MA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    What you don't want to do is go in there over a barrel like I did. I had a 2004 TrailBlazer that was going through a pint of power steering fluid every other day. Damn near paid full price for a 2014 4Runner. Two months later my 2003 Grand Cherokee started foaming the oil, indicating a head gasket leak. Yup, damn near paid full price for a 2015.

    I looked into TrueCar and it seems like a decent way to go but I'm fairly remote from cities and I wanted a local dealer to threaten if anything goes wrong with either car and neither dealer wanted to play because they knew I was in a bad position. I waited too long, running both near 200K miles. My mistake.

    Don't be stupid like me. I plopped down many large to get two decent cars and traded Junkers to do so. I won't do that again. Well, I do have that 2005 Suburban with 160K on it....

    Anyway, I've rented the Elantra, nice car!

    First find out what all the incentives are on it then be a tough negotiator. When they hit their bottom line, thank them for their time and get up and leave. Only then will they really get to dealing with you.

    Only deal at the end of the month or at the end of the week. Most sales people have to make their numbers. Go in on February 1 and they could care less, they have the whole month to make their number. If you go February 27 they might be hungry if they haven't met their goal or greedy if they are in bonus mode. That's common in many sales organizations.

    Car sales people are mainly runners between you and the Sales Manager now. He/she makes the final decision. If you aren't financing you will NOT get the best deal. They make a profit on selling your loan to a bank so do NOT mention that you could pay cash. Toyota was particularly pissy with me when I negotiated the price for the 4Runner. When we agreed on the price he asked me what loan term and I said zero months, I'm paying cash. He then wanted to increase the price of the car. Go ahead and I'll call the State and turn you in! Asshole (yes, I am).

    Do not buy anything from the finance guy (extended warranty, perpetual shiny car, mink lined glove box, car starter, etc). You can get all those cheaper after market.

    Good luck! Post pictures and let us know about beating the crap out of some sleazy dealer!
  5. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

    Nov 28, 2010
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    I also used Truecar for a new car lease which resulted in several local dealers competing amongst each other. I ended up with a good deal which was well under MSRP.
    Going to Vegas, I won't back down
  6. Daryl

    Daryl Tourist

    Dec 14, 2013
    Toronto Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Ive been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years. Here are a few secrets

    The dealer doesn't want you to pay cash because they get a kickback/commission for arranging financing for you. On a 20K purchase they will see somewhere in the $400-$600 range. If you want to catch them off guard tell them you will finance with them if you can receive half the kickback/commission as a further discount on the vehicle.

    Watch out when purchasing products from the business manager (usually the person who you see after you are done with the salesperson)

    This 100 sq ft office is the most profitable in the dealership. In most cases they make more selling you a warranty, rust proofing and insurances then they do selling you the car. Im not going to tell you not to purchase any products from the business manager but just remember these products have heavy markups.
    Its not uncommon for a business manager selling extended warranties that cost the dealership $800 to turn around and mark it up to $2000-$2500, you can negotiate on these products. The business manager is a commissioned salesperson and the most lucrative job in the dealership.

    Getting the best price, I would go to one dealer and find the exact model and make you are looking for and get a print out of the options and standard equipment. Once you have narrowed it down email 4-5 dealers for a quote, now they are all quoting the same vehicles, apples to apples!

    All large dealerships have an internet/online sales department, they know they only have one shot to make a deal and in many cases you will be offered the vehicle at close to cost.

    Just a few car buying secrets, good luck with your purchase.
  7. gguerra

    gguerra Low-Roller

    Apr 14, 2011
    Sunny South Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    truecar.com or one of their competitors edmunds.com. Do not register or enter your email at either one until you are actually ready. They will be calling you pretty quickly after that.
  8. parallax

    parallax Low-Roller

    Mar 5, 2014
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Never say how much you are willing to pay for the car. This will immediately put you at a disadvantage. Do your homework and determine what price you are willing to pay. Don't be afraid to walk.
  9. Universal

    Universal Low-Roller

    Jan 17, 2012
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Great advice.
  10. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

    Sep 18, 2003
    Central California Coast
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Do the online thing, either a service like truecar or carsdirect, and you can add in direct contact with x, y and z dealers in your area.

    Go in with money in hand.

    Enter no discussions at the dealership about financing (however, 0% is your friend, so that's an exception) or options or any shit they offer. If that starts, walk out.
  11. Bernie2

    Bernie2 High-Roller

    Dec 22, 2008
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    A friend of mine went back and forth with the dealers that did internet sales. The vehicle was in Asheville NC and he lives in the Richmond VA area. He had dealers in SC, NC, MD, Washington DC and of course VA. He had the car delivered to his home and did the paperwork at his house. One could also use a room at a library just reserve it. Good luck
  12. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

    Apr 24, 2013
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    I just bought a car and feel like I got a good deal. I tried with one brand to go to dealers and try to haggle, but the lowest price i could get was still slightly above the internet quote I got. I decided not to buy that brand and with the car I bought I did it all online and over the phone. So this what I would recommend....

    Use TruCar, build your Elantra, trim X, with option Y. You will get three prices from dealers in your area or close to it. You will then emails from the reps at those dealers. That will get the ball rolling. You should then go on the other dealers websites and search their inventory, mist will show the cars they have available and have a tab for a e-quote. You will want to get as many quotes as possible. You should be able to then have a lowest price. Call your rep from the closest dealer who has the car you want in stock and ask if they will beat the price you have. They typically will by a couple hundred or else you just go to the other dealer.

    Remember you will be paying between 9-10.5 percent in tax a registration fees depending on what county you live in. For cars they base the sales tax by the county the car will be registered in, so to get out for 18K you need to get the car for 16,400 or under. If you aren't to picky about the color it should be doable. Car lots sometimes will get cars on their lots for a longer then wanted time and might be willing to move them for less. If they ask at first always say you will finance as other have mentioned. Say you will put 6k down, so thats the ideal 1/3 that they like as a down payment. When it comes to buy, after you agreed to a price, say I changed my mind I'll pay cash. Most Dealers do not want to have to count 18k in cash, and then keep it on hand, so they usually prefer a check. Good luck.
  13. lithium78

    lithium78 VIP Whale

    Sep 8, 2013
    New Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    I used TrueCar to buy my last car back when it was called Zag.com. I then purchased my car in January when dealers were really trying to get rid of their leftover previous model year stock. I also took advantage of clearance incentives on top of the TrueCar price. All in all, I ended up paying more than $2000 below invoice. One tip, though: When you go in, don't let them know you are paying in cash until after you have negotiated price, because dealers make a lot of their money on the back end with their own financing.
    Harrah's Atlantic City for the Teachers Convention
  14. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

    Jun 16, 2012
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    buying a car and getting the best price is A LOT OF WORK......most end up and leave money on the table because they are not willing to do all the work and because they try and skip a step

    there are a few that say "use fax machine and internet and bam 4 dealers all beating themselves down on price"........this can happen, but not for those that do not know what they are doing and remember the "fleet guy" did not get to be the "fleet guy" because he gave more cars away for next to no profit than anyone else

    I have a pretty long "method" that I usually offer up, but the reality is most people can't get past reading it much less go through the work of executing it and the effort and time it takes or they believe they can cut out a few steps and it will cost them.....no matter how I try and simplify it really it is still a LONG read because the truth is getting "the best' deal on a car is almost always going to be a LONG process that involves negotiating MULTIPLE aspects of a deal depending on if you have a trade, you are paying cash or financing, your credit score and many other things

    I happen to know where I posted it the last time I posted it so I can just cut and paste.....it is LONG......here goes!...... and remember as you read this what money is worth to you.....if you make $300 per hour and your weekends are worth more than saving $50 dollars or $300 dollars well who can argue with that........if you make $50 dollars per hour and your weekends (or the one you are going to be car shopping have no real "value" to you other than saving $50 or $25 or $12 dollars then take your time and get every dollar you can.......but as you read this you can see there are spots all over a "car deal" where a miscalculation or laziness on your part can hit you for a couple of hundred dollars or more and if you let that happen 2 or 3 times in a deal well you did not get a deal

    1. go to your trusted bank or credit union and get pre-approved for a loan at X interest rate for up to Y dollars

    2. never let a dealership pull a credit report on you until you know "this is THE CAR I am looking to make a deal on"

    3. look online at the sites that have averages of what people pay for a make and year model

    4. be able to know and calculate accurately what Y dollars financed for X interest rate for Z months equals in payments

    5. decide how long you want to finance the car for (months/years) and what is the highest monthly payment you can afford......NEVER go higher than that period especially on the months/years to get a lower payment period......if you have to do that you are looking at "too much car".......NEVER go past 5 years on a new car and 4 or less on a used car......if you have to go over 5 years you are looking a too much car

    6. there is sticker price, "dealer invoice price", dealer hold back, advertising hold back and factory rebates

    sticker price is pretty obvious it is the price the dealer dreams of selling the car for

    dealer invoice price is the "price that the dealer cuts a check to the manufacturer for that unit" and technically that is the actual price the dealership does cut a check to the manufacturer for

    dealer hold back is money that the manufacture golds back from each sale that is then returned to the dealer for meeting particular sales goals of that model......sell 20 Ford Focusesnesses in a month and get 50% of your hold back....back......sell 30 and 75%......40 get 100%.......these are MADE UP numbers for demonstration purposed only

    advertising hold back is the money that the manufacturer holds back from each sale for "Gulf Coast Area Ford Dealer" advertisements that list ALL the Gulf Coast Area Ford Dealers or that sponsor the Texans (or Jerry in dallas for North Texas Area Ford Dealers)

    generally on a poplar model that is selling extremely well and in demand (in the WAY BACK) you could expect to pay slightly over dealer invoice price (100 to 200 dollars)

    on models that are not in as big of demand or end of month/year.model year you could negotiate into dealer hold back a few hundred to even sometimes more

    factory rebates should ALWAYS go to you

    so lets "work a deal"

    these are made up numbers the dollar amounts are probably somewhere close to correct as far as % of profit above invoice and hold back ect, but it varies per model

    your Ford Focusnessnessess stickers for $30,000

    it has a dealer invoice of $27,500

    it has a dealer hold back of $800 dollars and an advertising hold back of $800 dollars and a manufacturers rebate of $1,500 dollars

    again you have to look online at the various edmonds, trucar, comsumer reports sites to see on average what others are paying......but in the "way back" when I was around (briefly) here is what a good deal would look like

    Focusnesses are popular, but never in short supply for the most part

    so you would aim for going several hundred into dealer hold back PLUS the rebate

    so you are looking at a dealer invoice of $27,500, dealer hold back of $800 and a rebate of $1,500


    so at worst if it was a popular model and you were looking at paying $100 to even $200 OVER DEALER INVOICE you would be looking at $27,500 dealer invoice + $200 MINUS REBATE

    so $27,500 + $200 - $1,500

    so $26,200 final sales price

    now if the car has been on the lot over 30/45 days it is a model that there is PLENTY OF, it is the end of the month near the end of the year and new model years are coming out

    well you might be looking to get into that dealer hold back......because of the dealer can sell 2 more of those this month and 6 more this year they will get 25% more of their hold back for ALL UNITS SOLD in some time frame.....so working into hold back to get YOUR sale means they get more hold back from all other sales

    so lets see that deal

    $27,500 dealer invoice......we go a really nice $600 into dealer hold back AND the rebate of $1,500

    so $27,500 - $600 - $1,500 = $25,400

    so right there the difference between getting into that hold back or paying a bit over invoice is about $800 dollars

    how much of that $800 dollars can you make yours......well how much time, efforts, smarts, patients ect do you have to earn $800 for yourself VS letting the dealership earn that

    again it is going to depend on the make, model, time of year, sales volume of that type of vehicle for that dealership, how many units that salesman has or has not sold that month (yes that can matter), how long that particular unit has been on that lot and on and on

    NEVER get your rebate "slipped"......that rebate is MANUFACTURER MONEY

    never work a deal that is $200 OVER invoice PLUS the rebate.......never allow "oh well the only way we got to $200 over invoice is because of the rebate"

    it should ALWAYS be either dollars over invoice/into dealer hold back MINUS THE REBATE or the more dangerous % off of sticker - the invoice (which is really just the harder way to work the same deal on your part)

    if the car has a dealer invoice of $27,500 and you pay $200 over invoice because it is a popular model for the new model year AND you get "slipped" the $1,500 rebate then you have paid $1,700 over invoice

    if you "work a great deal into dealer hold back of $500 dollars"....BUT you get "slipped" on the $1,500 rebate well you have paid $1,000 OVER dealer invoice

    "slipping" the rebate is when you have worked a deal and there is an advertised rebate that either you did not know about or you did know about, but you are WEAK..... and after you set a price (say you agree to an OK deal of "dealer invoice price") the sales guy slips out the rebate form with "assign rebate to dealer" and you sign it

    now assigning the rebate to dealer (vs taking it in cash or having it applied as a down payment) is the proper thing to generally do because if you take the rebate as cash or have it applied as a down payment you will be taxed on that amount

    what are the differences between the three options and why would someone do them

    assigning the rebate to dealer makes it as though you have been sold the car for X dollars less the rebate.......so you were sold the car for X - $1,500.....no tax paid on that $1,500

    taking the rebate as cash would be a "rat" move because you are just a broke fool that would rather take $1,500 in a check from the manufacturer mailed to you in 4-6 weeks, pay the taxes on it and then go ghetto rich and "make it rain" in the club in 6 weeks in your new hooptie......oh yea and that $1,500 is financed on your new hooptie as well because of course no matter what you tell yourself that rebate was not "taken" by you in the deal

    again if you work a proper deal it will be X dollars over invoice (a small small amount) or X dollars below dealer invoice and into dealer hold back and then MINUS THE REBATE.....only a fool and a rat thinks that by taking the rebate as cash they have come out $1,500 ahead (not even considering the taxes to be paid on that)

    you are not going to get a deal of $27,500 dealer invoice and say -$200 into hold back and then minus another $1,500 AND keep the $1,500 rebate while all the other "fools" have a deal of $27,500 - $200 into dealer hold back and they assign the $1,500 rebate to dealer instead of getting their "make it rain mailbox money" in 6 weeks

    and lastly there is the "assign rebate as down payment"......this is the move of a "roach" with horrid credit.......basically you are buying the car for X dollars and then the rebate is "assigned" as a "down payment" so that lenders view the loan as you having more "equity" in the car so it is a "safer" loan

    so you work your deal of $27,500 dealer invoice and you say work $200 into dealer hold back and then instead of assigning the $1,500 rebate to dealer and having a final price of $27,500 (dealer invoice) - $200 (you worked into dealer hold back) - $1,500 rebate assigned to dealer for a final price of $25,800

    you have $27,500 - $200 (you worked into dealer hold back) and then a "down payment" of $1,500 (that you pay taxes on as if it was $1,500 in income)...... and yes the final financed amount of $25,800 is exactly the same, but the bank is able to view your loan and your roach credit as having $1,500 more equity right into the car from the start so it is a "safer" loan......yes that is how stupid our credit and lending system can be......that is just how it is

    so again the real deal is when you are aiming for X dollars slightly over dealer invoice or slightly into dealer hold back NEVER allow the rebate to be what "made that happen"......the rebate is always off to the side and comes off of what you work a deal for based off of dealer invoice prices

    and to be clear with the WWW out there today and invoices all over the WWW deals based around dealer invoice is what everyone is shooting for and dealers all know this and work with this now.....so seeing what others have paid on average in your area and nationally on a unit before and after including any rebate is where you base your numbers

    but again it is always easier to work around the dealer invoice price and money above it or money below it than trying to do what a dealer of yore dreams of and that is working dollars off of sticker price

    and again always know where the "rebate" is coming into play....the last thing you want is to see online that everyone else paid what you paid MINUS the rebate because you allowed the rebate to get in there and confuse things along the way

    as an example the best deal I ever saw offered was to an idiot Aggie Engineer that had just come back from Korea where he was overseeing the construction of a major wafer fab plant

    he had an invoice he had paid $50 dollars to autobytel for that was the exact V6 Explorer he wanted

    we had that exact explorer on the lot......with one exception ours had a V8 not the V6

    we showed him an invoice for ours (that was the "trick" at the dealership I worked for back when the WWW was still "new" and showing an invoice was very rare).....it is a major violation of law to show a fake invoice

    Aggie looked ours over with great surprise and consternation as 100% of it matched exactly with his......except the $895 V8 option.....he was 100% expecting a fake invoice......of course showing him a real one built ZERO TRUST with this idiot

    he wanted to pay $50 dollars over dealer invoice price of the V6 model that he really wanted......he really had to have that V6 because he thought driving it around dallas would somehow give better mileage than the 5 liter

    we ended up offering him $100 dollars over invoice for the V6 invoice that he had......so in other words we were giving him the $895 dollar V8 option for FREE so on our unit we were pretty much eating 100% of the dealer hold back

    it was the end of the month, end of the year and more importantly Expeditions were brand new and your dealer allocation of Expeditions was based on Explorer sales and the dealership I was at sold more Explorers than most dealers in the USA...... and there was some "hidden money" somewhere because the boss in the "tower" kept looking at some little bitty sheet of paper on the way with smaller than phone book printing on it and going slightly lower each "pencil"

    at the end of the sale Aggie Idiot walked because he wanted to only pay $50 over dealer invoice for the V6 invoice he had instead of the $100 we were willing to do AND DISCOUNTING 100% of the $895 V8 option because he felt he had "earned" that $50 by paying autobytel $50 dollars and doing his homework

    so over $50 dollars (and getting a V6 over the 5 liter V8 for free and the gas mileage is a non factor in dallas traffic) that fool was willing to go waste hours more of his time at many other dealers that probably were not going to go lower than $100 over invoice either on even the V6 because Explorers were still selling well and theirs had probably not been on the lot quite as long as our particular one happened to have been

    but hey $50 dollars is $50 dollars and pretend EPA mileage is pretend EPA mileage (like the pretend mileage of the 4cyl Ranger that several dealers would try and not sell because they got worse mileage than a 3 liter V6 and about the same as the 4 liter V6.......because when you have to go to 3,500 RPMs to get to 45 miles an hour in under 20 minutes your mileage goes to ****

    OK rant off and back to a car deal.....but the above is important to show how time and effort can work and knowing what you are looking at can work......but getting caught up in "the bestest deal evAR" leaves you driving all over town torturing yourself over $50 dollars

    7. NEVER EVER EVER talk payments until you have decide the sales price of the car......how can you possibly know what your payments are going to be if you do not know what something cost....PERIOD

    8. if you have a trade work the trade first

    never allow yourself to get too caught up in the trade value.....it is just a simple number

    if the car sells to you for $40,000 - $8,000 that they gave you for the Ford Van that the sliding door fell off of and hit the salesman in the head when he opened it (my friends van did that and the guy still offered him $800 dollars and my friends dad even started laughing) well the car has sold for $32,000 right

    and if they offer you $1 dollar for your trade and the car sells to you for $32,001 well $32,001 -$1 = $32,000......BUT MY TRADE IS WORTH MORE THAN A DOLLAR!!!

    OK be right back......great news your trade is worth $4,001 and your final drive out amount is $32,100 (they are now selling you the car at $36,101).......OK I GOT WHAT I WANT FOR MY TRADE!!!.....yea and paid $100 more than when your trade was worth a dollar

    really trades make everything harder and trades are what make people have to go from dealer to dealer putting up with "dealers".......because at the end of the day you want to to drive out with either the least money financed or the least cash paid and who cares if the money is on inflated trade value or lower sales price

    the easiest way to deal with a trade (and ALL OF THE SALE) is COMPARTMENTALIZE EVERYTHING

    get a value for the trade....... after that value is set NEVER allow the deal you are working at that time to bring the trade back into the deal PERIOD

    in fact really the "trade" should really be looked at like a DOWN PAYMENT (unless you are a roach and you are upside down on your trade and then you have no business buying a car)

    so set a value of a trade and then WORK A NEW CAR DEAL AS STATED ABOVE IN #6


    OK Joe Salesman you have set the value of my trade at $2,000 dollars.......write that down on a piece of paper to play their game

    then SET THAT PAPER ASIDE.......now to the NEW CAR PRICE....... and start working WHAT THEY WILL SELL THAT CAR FOR

    and again lest say it is a car that stickers for $30,000 and has a dealer invoice of $27,500 and a rebate of $1,500 and you are aiming to get $200 dollars into dealer hold back for a final sales price of

    $27,500 (dealer invoice) - $1,500 (rebate) - $200 (money you worked into hold back) = $25,800

    NOW TAKE OFF THE TRADE for amount financed so your trade was worth $2,000 (and you are OK with that value) so now $25,800 - $2,000 = $23,800

    9. down payment......see trade.....they are really basically the same thing only one has a known value......but you negotiate them the same.....meaning YOU DON'T

    what money you put for a down payment is MEANINGLESS TO WHAT THEY CAN SELL YOU THE CAR FOR

    in fact with dealers making most of their money on financing now every dollar down is a smaller amount for them to make vig on for placing the loan with a lender


    except in ONE CASE....... and again it is a DANGEROUS PATH for someone that is not highly confident and patient

    if you have your pre-approved loan from your bank or credit union for say 5% and the dealer says they can get you to 4%, but their lender wants a bit more down payment to get more "skin in the game" (equity) and make the loan a bit safe for them

    YOU WILL NEED TO BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT WITH INTEREST AND PAYMENT CALCULATIONS.....but if you run the numbers and it works and you are comfortable with that then do it

    lets look at a simple auto loan calculator for an example


    so for round numbers

    $10,000 financed for 5 years @ 5%

    $188.71 per month

    dealer says if they can get another G out of you their "preferred" lender can get you in at 4%....sounds good right


    so using the same above link

    $9,000 financed for 5 years @ 4% = $165.75

    pretty straight forward

    but more than likely what will happen is they will come back with a payment of $184.17.....wait what happened......oh yea what happened is they make you a payment of financing $10,000 for 5 years @ 4%........even though you just gave them another G.....opps did not think you would catch that!

    or more than likely they will come back with a payment of something like $167.79.......that is $9,000 @ 4.5% so they could get 4% from their lender, but that .5% is all profit baby!.....how much

    well $167.79 - $165.75 = $2.04 X 60 (months) = $122.44.......ever dollar counts.....if a dealer can work that on 200 cars a month X 12 months = $293,760 per year in FREE profit

    so again know your numbers......when it gets down to the end and they are looking for another $1,000 here and there hold firm unless you can really work the numbers down to the bottom dollar at that point

    because the $122.44 you just gave up above for another G down for a lower payment comes right off of all the hard work you put in when you were "in the box"

    BUT at the same time the difference between $10,000 financed for 5 years @ 5% ($188.71 per month) VS $9,000 financed for 5 years @ 4% ($165.75) is $188.71 - $165.75 = $22.96 per month X 60 months = $1,377.60

    so a total "savings" of $377.60 because remember you are putting another G down......so again every few dollars a month they get you over and above what the REAL payment difference would be for taking a true $1,000 off the financed amount is and giving you that real % interest rate difference adds up fast because as we saw a $2.04 difference in payment over 60 months was $122.44......so that is 1/3 of your 1% interest savings right there

    so we can see how easy it would be to get "chumped" on that deal

    $10,000 @ 5% for 60 months = $188.71

    $9,000 @ 4% for 60 months = $165.75

    they come back to you with "ok we are at $171.75" ($6 dollars more than $9,000 @ 4% for 60 months would really be)

    $6 dollars X 60 months = $360 dollars......you just saved a grand total of $17.60 over FIVE YEARS for handing off another $1,000 UP FRONT....NOT $17.60 PER MONTH......TOTAL OVER 5 YEARS

    because again as above there was a TOTAL $1377.60 TOTAL dollar difference between financing $10,000 @ 5% for 60 months VS $9,000 @ 4% for 60 months...... and YOU PAID $1,000 UP FRONT which means a TOTAL SAVINGS of $377.60

    IT IS NOT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN $10,000 @ 5% VS $10,000 @ 4%.....BECAUSE YOU PAID $1,000 to get that 1% difference

    10. lets go back over the "deal"

    you have your best rate pre-approved financing from reputable lender

    you are 100% firm on how long you are going to finance

    you are 100% firm on your down payment

    if you have a trade you know a general value of it

    never negotiate months financed period that is a roach move

    never negotiate down payment.....if you want to put X down put X down as we can see above the difference in payments is there, but it is only there if you capture 100% of that and when you start "working a deal" with too many factors you get WORKED






    if you are going for "dollars over invoice or dollars into hold back" work that deal......if you are foolish enough to try % off sticker then I hope you sold cars in the past and get a "green pea" salesman and a sleepy sales manager

    people LOSE ALL THEIR HARD WORK ON PAYMENTS AND MONEY DOWN as demonstrated in #9

    car stickers for $30,000......"everyone else on the innerwebtubes" is paying $25,800 because there is an advertised $1,500 rebate and dealer invoice of $27,500 and they are getting $200 into dealer hold back

    $27,500 - $1,500 - $200 = $25,800

    the value of your trade and money down MEANS NOTHING to THAT DEAL THERE....NOTHING

    once you know what they will sell you the car for then you can concentrate on how your trade plays in and what some other dealer that can sell you that same car for at that same price can give you for your trade

    hell work a deal at 2-3 places with NO TRADE AND NO MONEY DOWN

    then go back to each and say "so if I do trade this".... at that point of course their answer is to start a whole new deal, but of course if you can do simple math you can still figure out how they are valuing the trade and at the end of the day it is all about least money out of pocket drive out and lowest payments not number they put on individual parts of the deal

    so you may have to work 3 new deals with all 3 to see where your trade stands and compare.....it is a time value equation for you.....what is your time worth that day VS what you might save

    ACTUAL DOWN PAYMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.....because again dealers these days make money on financing anyway......down payment is strictly money right off the amount financed....do not even negotiate it

    you worked a deal for $30,000 sticker, $27,500 invoice, $1,500 rebate...."suckers" going $200 into hold back and you hit the right car (long time on the lot), right salesman (selling a lot so bosses love him), end of month, end of year and went $400 into hold back

    so $27,500 - $1,500 - $400 = $25,600

    after that how much down payment COMES RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF THAT......STILL NO TALK OF MONTHLY PAYMENTS

    so $2,000 down

    $23,600 financed

    $2,000 for what you think is a fair trade

    $21,600 financed

    you are FIRM on number of months financed (never work number of months EVER unless you are SEASONED)

    so there you have it

    $21,600 would be your price

    but wait

    11. TT&L

    Taxes......death and....

    easy to figure out you have your sales tax and your sales tax and your sales tax....so what is the % sales tax in the area where you are.....basic math stuff there

    and back to the rebate.....when you take the rebate in cash like a rat or you have it put as a down payment like a roach.......not only do you pay INCOME TAX on that......you pay SALES TAX ON THAT AS WELL

    because of course if you keep the rebate you pay more for the car that is just how it will be

    if you have it assigned as a down payment again it is like you are paying more in sales price for the car, but putting a bigger down payment (even though the numbers end up (or should end up) the same for amount financed)

    so you are going to pay say 25% in income taxes and 8.5% in sales taxes (33.5%) on a $1,500 dollar rebate instead of assigning it to dealer and avoiding a 33.5% tax hit on free money

    lack of ability to know and understand things like that are why the poor stay poor and the stupid stay stupid

    the other T&L

    license plate fees are what they are that is set by the county where you live....so pretty simple to know what that cost......just like sales tax %.....it is set.....do the math

    title fee.....this is basically some money the dealer charges you for handling getting your plates for you......should you pay it......well lets be honest depending on where you live standing in line at the county and getting your car titles can be a big pain in the A or (where I live) it is 5 minutes and makes you think wow government can be efficient

    but the real kicker is you are not going to leave the lot with your new car not either titled or in the process of.....so if you want to leave the lot, head to the county and get your plates and title/registration and then come back to the lot.....go for it......probably not worth the $100 you will save.....but who knows

    simple thing to do is again BREAK IT DOWN

    it will cost X dollars (a fixed amount) for plates that is set by the county period the end

    sales tax is the sales tax rate X sales price (4th grade maths)

    that leaves the title fee

    so say you are at the above $25,600 sales price (remember down payment and trade in do not lower sales price they lower amount finance only)

    sales tax is say 8.5%

    $25,600 X 8.5% = $2,176

    your plates cost say $65 dollars

    so your T and L of the dreaded TT&L is $2,176 + $65 = $2,241......so why is my total TT&L $3,000......well because you are in a bad car deal

    so again hit them back with TT&L of $2,241 because really titling your car should be their job anyway......then maybe give them say $50 for the trouble of it all for a TOTAL TT&L of $2,291

    so now you have a car deal of

    $25,600 + $2,291 TT&L - $2,000 down - $2,000 trade equal TOTAL AMOUNT FINANCED of $23,891

    so you have the link


    you have your pre-approved financing of 5% for 5 years

    $23,891 financed @ 5% for 5 years = $450.85 per month

    if their F&I (opps sorry business office) guy is not hitting that number why not.......simply tell them you are going to "pay cash" which really means your going to use your pre-approved lender rate of 5% that should come to $450.85 per month

    there is OFTEN a chance a dealer can beat that 5% (or whatever you have)

    if they say they have a lender that can go 4% (with NOTHING MORE DOWN FROM YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM)

    well monthly payments would then be $439.99.....what fool would not take that

    more than likely what they will do is come back and say "our lender" can get you to payments of $448.25

    hey $2.65 is $2.65 X 60 months

    what will that "rate" be......it is in there in the paper work......what will they actually sell the loan for.....something less than that and they will collect a half a % or 3/4 a % or whatever.....THAT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW

    but hey if it is the same down payment out of pocket, the same dollars financed for the same amount of time and a lower payment you have nothing to lose

    12. dealer prep = K.M.A......that is kiss my....

    not even open for negotiations that is IN THE PRICE PERIOD NOT ADDED ON

    as for zero financing someone else mentioned....not a scam at all.....that is from the factory and usually in place of a rebate......you have to do the math though.....but it can open you to a scam

    say the deal above that was $23,891 all in total financed.....zero financing payments should be a simple $23,891 / 60 (or whatever number of months) no interest calculator needed.....so $398.1833333

    if it is not that why not......there is an issue somewhere.....find it and get it removed....ZERO IS ZERO

    again this is a FACTORY offer and usually IN PLACE OF a rebate......so you deserve and should get and are entitled to 100% of ALL OF THAT.....not 99% not 99.99%.....100%

    the math on that is not hard

    you are paying PAYING OFF an extra $1,500 over 60 months

    so the above deal really should be $23,891 PLUS $1,500 added back on because you ARE NOT GETTING THAT FACTORY REBATE

    and one more thing there is a bit more sales tax because the rebate came off the sales price

    so you have $27,500 dealer invoice, $400 into hold back = $27,100 X 8.5% sales tax = $2303.5 for a total of $29,403.5 and then $65 for plates and the $50 we are giving them for the other T = $29,515.5

    then minus your $2,000 down and your $2,000 trade equals a total amount financed of $25,515.5 and divide that by 60 months = $425.2583333

    so with the $1,500 rebate and 4% (the dealership great rate) you had a total of $23,891 for 60 months = $439.99

    with zero % interest and no rebate you are at $425.2583333

    so again if you hold all things equal, understand the sales tax differences, get the payments in line ect you can save money with zero down


    that there is a "simple" "good" car deal and you will hate your salesman as much or more than he hates you

    how hard are you willing to work for all those dollars and cents is up to you

    but again knowing that "everyone else in the webinnertubes" paid X dollars under invoice and beating that by $200 means nothing if you get screwed on the trade, worked on the interest rate, taken on dealer prep and TT&L and totally BFed on monthly payments
  15. chitownjohn

    chitownjohn High-Roller

    Nov 28, 2010
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    wow someone, I won't ask you what time it is, you'll tell me how to build a watch. :poke:
    Going to Vegas, I won't back down
  16. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

    Jun 16, 2012
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    what time is it is a very simple question......how to get the best deal on a car is not

    it is easy to say "look on line get an invoice price and shoot for that or a little under"

    but if you try that you may well end up getting a rebate slipped on you as the dealer tells you the reason everyone is getting "invoice prices" is because of the rebate

    you can make a great deal on the sales price of a car, but if you do not understand financing you can give all that up and a great deal more on the financing

    $5 per month seems like not a lot, but $5 X 12 months X 5 years = $300 dollars.....so you spend a couple of hours on the sales floor to get that $300 dollars and you give it all back up or even more in the finance office because you take the attitude of "it is only $5 per month".......and the dealer will get that extra $300 pretty much up front as soon as they collect their check for the difference in what the car COULD have been financed for and what it actually was financed for

    many people are either payment or price buyers.....how can you know a payment without knowing a sales price

    if you get monthly payments that you like should you feel good when the reality is you could have bought the car for less if you worked the sales price as well as the monthly payments instead of just the monthly payments

    for the vast majority of people a car purchase is their second biggest purchase (for some it will be their biggest).......so taking some time and understanding the full process and where you can get the best deal and get taken at each step is imperative to making the best deal otherwise you will waste a great deal of time and effort only to leave what can be a lot of money on the table if you do not understand each step

    it is like the difference between telling someone to find the best "pay table" on video poker and surely they will have the best "luck" gambling at that machine VS explaining to them why those pay tables matter AND how to actually play the game and the cards dealt to make sure that favorable pay table pays off as best it can

    most just want to tell people/here "find the best pay table" for a car deal few want to understand/explain why that is relevant or how to actually play the hands dealt......which at the end of the day surely means less profitable payouts and larger losses and next to no opportunity to actually have a winning experience
  17. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Aug 10, 2012
    I haven't read all of Someone's lengthy post but did see him say multiple times "NEGOTIATE THE PRICE OF THE CAR PERIOD".

    I agree completely. This applies whether you're paying cash or financing. Its just plain bad that a lot of people who finance will negotiate their monthly payment instead of negotiating the actual price of the car (i.e. the loan). I can make someone's monthly payment on a loan pretty much anything if I'm free to play around with the rest of the terms.

    I paid cash when I bought and I just went with my little brother to buy his car and he was also paying cash. But as others said when they ask if you're financing just leave it vague if you can. Emphasize you want to negotiate the price of the car and then you can look at financing options, even though you are paying cash since dealerships have more room to negotiate when they're making money on the financing. With my brother's recent purchase (just a few weeks ago) we did a TrueCar estimate and had that in our pocket but ended up negotiating a better deal. Which is why I call bullshit when people say that TrueCar is a rock-bottom price. Also even though they like people who finance, when you're paying cash you can make the deal easy for them which has some value. Make it clear you're ready to write the check right then, no last minute surprises about your credit not getting approved or whatever.

    By the way I'm not completely sold on the idea of negotiating your "out the door" price as a whole. We had more luck breaking out the car price and the rest of the fees separately and then negotiating each one. Some fees we couldn't negotiate, but some we could. Basically having more line items to chip away at seemed to work better when we did this. I also think it helped because once we negotiated the car price the dealer may have not been aware we would negotiate the fees, so if he thought he had a built-in buffer we were now pushing him to reduce that as well. But a lot of people say its better to negotiate the entire out-the-door price instead so I wouldn't say anything definitively.

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Aug 8, 2013
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Thanks for everyone's responses...
    On financing; like I said, $18k cash is what I've got.
    I'll check out TrueCar service (that's where I got the price range of $17k-$20k)
    I literally want as cheap an Elantra as possible (the ones we rent are straight BASE models); the only "option" being an automatic transmission.
    It comes with a 10year/100k mile warranty standard, so there's nothing "extra" I need (If they try to sell me on that shit)
    Annual Christmas in Vegas!
  19. oldcrabtom

    oldcrabtom Low-Roller

    Sep 17, 2009
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Thanks for your thorough explanation............ :drunk:
  20. lotso-bear

    lotso-bear VIP Whale

    Jan 21, 2013
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    As other said, "NEGOTIATE" and watch out for the Finance/Business Manager. I usually hit up a few dealerships in my area (40 mile radius) and see what the Internet Sales Managers are willing to offer. Once I get some offers, I usually have them go against each other to see if they will match or beat each other's offer. Once I like a certain offer, I ask them for a written agreement before heading to the dealership. This way I don't get screwed over when I get there. However, I've gotten screwed many times by the Business Manager since they wouldn't allow a sale, which would then infuriate the salesperson. If I don't like the deal or feel like I'm getting screwed, I just walk out the door. There are many other dealerships that I can visit in the area who would be happy to take my business.
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