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How to figure tier points, to coin in?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by golfnut, Nov 8, 2013.

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  1. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    I know I have read on here how to do this, but can't remember and couldn't find it in the search.

    I'm trying to figure out how to figure how much coin in I would have possibly put threw the slots and theo for roulette.

    On my last trip I earned 77900 tier credits with Mlife in three days. All of that was earned on slots and roulette. Never used card when eating at restaurants.

    If you need any more info let me know. I was thinking there was a way to figure this but if I'm wrong let me know that also.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  2. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    Any one, any one. Bueller, Bueller, ..... Crickets:confused:
     
  3. 2VegasNuts

    2VegasNuts High-Roller

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    People are probably calculating :)

    I have seen numbers of 30pts/$1 theo and 22pts/$1 theo. Based on my last trip, this theo calculation seems way too high. I would have had over $6,000 in Theo over 3 days. I was comped an upgrade on a corporate offer to a Marquis suite at NYNY for 3 nights (maybe $300 comp value at most) and 1 night of a Madison room (maybe $50 comp value). At the end, I requested my remaining charges be comped (2 nts for madison room, $96) and was told no more comps available.
     
  4. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Yes, we would need more info. You can't figure it out because slots and table games earn TCs in different ways. So unless we have more info to break out one, we can't break out the other just from total TCs.

    Table games earn TCs at a rate of 30 per $1 theo. This is not a guess, its a number confirmed by MLife unless something has changed since the summer. TCs from slots aren't based on theo, they're based on coin-in. So total TCs isn't enough when it includes a mix of those two types of games. 2VegasNuts is doing his theo wrong because from another post of his around half his TCs came from slots.

    If you know how much total POINTPlay you earned then you could break out the slot coin-in since pointplay is only earned on machines. Once you have that you can break out your theo for table games as well. Just be sure to adjust the pointplay earning rate for any tier bonus you get.
     
  5. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    This was less than an hour after your first post. And, on a Friday night. Not everyone is glued to this board.

    From Mlife Web Site:
    For slot play in Las Vegas M life casinos, you receive ten (10) Tier Credits for every Base Point earned
     
  6. swuulumm

    swuulumm Low-Roller

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    From my very limited understanding: This destinction between coin-in and theo is bullshit - if i may say so.

    If have no idea what pointplay is, but i will simply ignore that one for now:
    On the tables, you earn money for the theo you are generating. For $1 of theo on Roulette (with 0 and 00), you need to place about $20 in bets [since the house advantage is 5,26%]. You will some kind of amount of TC for every $ of theo.

    On slots, your TC are based on coin-in? But coin-in is nothing else than a placed bet, right? If you roughly know the house advantage of slots (probably something around 8-10%, right?! if you exclude VP), the whole marketing-gag of coin-in can be dropped. As I see it, it is simply is a way to cover the knowledge more serious gamblers should have [slots have a big fat house advantage] while the more every day folks do not realize it immidiately.
    If you assume the house advantage on slots is 10%, you would need to put $10 in to generate $1 of theo.

    If you get 30 TC per $ theo on table games, you should be able to get 30 TC per $ theo on slots, right?
    If you convert that back to the coin-in BS, this would mean that you should get 30 TC per $10 coin-in. Do you get that much? I have never played much slots [especially not in Vegas], but somebody will surely be able to give a rough number.
     
  7. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Sure the two are related but what's explicitly defined in the program is TCs based on theo for table games and on coin-in for slots/VP. For example you earn TCs way faster in VP than you would at a game like blackjack for the same amount of theo, so they don't treat it as 1:1 on that basis.

    You can always deconstruct it down to a specific machine to determine how many TCs you earn per dollar theo if you know the HA of the game you're playing, or alternatively you can determine the TCs for "coin-in" on a specific table game by deconstructing it the other way. But if you want to know their actual numbers which are used for rating purposes you'd want to use the rate schedule they use.

    Edited to add: And yes, in that example you get roughly 30 TC per $10 coin-in. On a normal slot its 10 TCs per $3 coin-in so close enough. But of course if you do that conversion to put it in terms of theo on machines its going to vary for each game. That isn't the case with tables since its explicitly defined in terms of theo to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  8. 2VegasNuts

    2VegasNuts High-Roller

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    That is correct. My post above is just "what theo would have been" if you use 30/1. I knew the calculated theo in my post could not be correct.
     
  9. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    TCs on machines have nothing to do with theo whatsoever.

    Make one pull on a $5,000 slot machine whose theo is let's say 5% and do 100,000 spins on a 5 cent slot machine whose theo is 15% and you get the same exact number of TCs.
     
  10. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    I was trying to be funny with this post. I don't think that it worked though. I realize not everyone leads such a boring life like me on Friday nights.

    I'll be honest, I'm even more confused on how I would figure this out.

    But for those of you that like a challenge, I'll give you the info I have.

    Earned exactly 77801 tier credits in 3 days. Point play balance shows $55.82 never used any pony play while there. Shows $0 in express comps even though I didn't use any at all.
     
  11. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    don't forget to also break out tier credits from any room charges (room cost, meals charged to room, etc). You get 25 tier credits for every dollar spent.
     
  12. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    I did not charge anything to my room. Room was on a comp. also when we ate all meals were paid with cash and never gave them my card. Sorry forgot to mention that.
     
  13. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    It is easy if you only played tables or only played slots, but when you play both you're dealing with two unknowns and one equation. So you need another data point.

    The PP balance helps if all that 5582 in PP was earned on this trip. It will still be a little off though because even if you were Sapphire to start you would have moved up to Pearl and then to Gold, so you would have received some tier bonus on the PP that you can't exactly calculate because the order in which you received your points would matter in this instance.

    But roughly speaking, ignoring the tier bonus, 5582 in PP implies 55820 in TC earned from slots, and $16,746 coin-in if they were non-speciality machines. That would leave 21,981 TCs from tables implying a theo of $732 on those games.

    However it is odd you have no ECs, you should check on that because you should have over $90 based on your numbers. They might have used them for something.

    I think you'e a bit confused. If you have a comp room you can charge whatever you want to it, that's the only way those charges can possibly be comped at the end. If you paid cash at the point of sale you're eliminating that possibility. And whether you paid cash or charged it to the room, you should always make sure to get your TC credit for it. No reason not to.
     
  14. 2VegasNuts

    2VegasNuts High-Roller

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    So, if Golfnut and I each spent 3 days in Vegas, both are Gold level with MGM, and the play was, for example...

    1) Golfnut- $16,000 (edit $16,746) coin-in slots (all non-specialty) and he earned 77.900 TC's. I assume you great math wizards can figure out how much roulette he played?
    2) 2Vegasnuts- $18,000 coin-in slots (Let's say all non-specialty although probably 10% was) and earned 200,000 TC's. How much Paigow did I play?

    Is it 10 tier credits for $3 coin-in non specialty slots? and $10 for 10 TC's on specialtiy and VP? If so, then Golfnut earned 58,000 TC's from slot play? And myself, 60,000 TC's from slot play? Can you figure out theo from this? I would assume you would have to know the payback on each machine, yes?

    edit: I see KickinChicken was answering some of this at the same time. I see I forgot the Tier bonus calculation.
     
  15. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    I'm starting to realize that it would be impossible to figure. I played a lot if specialty slots. Those were the newer branded slots that have the sign that reads, This is a specialty slot and free play can't be played on it. Or something like that.

    Also a theo of 700ish on roulette seems low to me. Since I remember multiple time when I would lose 600-700 at one sitting. And lost 1500 on my last session. But maybe I don't understand theo exactly. But that's a discussion for a whole different thread.
     
  16. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Is it 10 tier credits for $3 coin-in non specialty slots? and $10 for 10 TC's on specialtiy and VP? - Yes.

    2Vegasnuts- $18,000 coin-in slots (Let's say all non-specialty although probably 10% was) and earned 200,000 TC's. How much Paigow did I play?

    $18,000 coin in should be 60,000 TCs (18,000/3) = 6,000 base points * 10 TC per base point

    If you had no TCs due to hotel spend, that leaves 140,000 TC earned at Pai Gow. 140,000/30 TCs per $1 of theo = $4,667 theo at Pai Gow = a shitload of Pai Gow.

    And just to throw another comparison into the mix to show how the TCs earned on table play approximates the TCs earned on slot play (non-specialty):

    30 TCs = $1 of theo on tables

    Play a slot machine with a 10% hold. To get 30 TCs, you'd have to play $9. The theo on that would be 90 cents. If the hold was 12%, your theo would be $1.08. Of course, to complicate things, you'd also earn .03 in Express Comps and .03 in slot free play.

    But you can see it's very roughly equivalent.
     
  17. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Yeah don't put much stock in it, the numbers could be very off because I had to make some big assumptions given the limited data. For instance if some of that pointplay was earned on a prior trip (if you played in the last 12 months) then a lot more of your TCs could be from roulette and therefore a much higher theo from that game. Since you played specialty slots the actual coin-in could be 3x higher as well. Then there's the tier bonus as well...

    I wish you had some other detail because it would be nice to know what rate roulette earns theo at. For instance on the best BJ games its roughly half a bet per hour. I would guess roulette is about 2 bets per hour (40 spins @ 5.26%) but I have no idea what speed they actually use.
     
  18. golfnut

    golfnut Low-Roller

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    If you would like other details ill try and give you some that may help. I know for a fact that I had 0 pointplay before this trip. Haven't had a trip for over a year and looked at mlife account before I went. Also I probably had about 10 roulette sessions. One session were I played singles average bet was $50 a spin, the others I always played nickels and average was $100 per spin on all but two which were $150 a spin. I usually would play a session for 2hrs. I do no a couple were only about 1 hr though. I don't know if this stuff helps at all. Thanks Agian.
     
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